LGBT lost in TRANSlation?

[GroobyKrissy]

I am not nor have I attacked anyone at all.

So, you believe it is not a "personal" attack to question someone's gender identity as you did me, and in the manner in which you did it? I do. It was in poor taste and I'm pretty sure you realize it and the reasons why.

And again... tacit agreement. This is the very reason why, if you are vocal enough to defend someone's statements, you should also be vocal enough to state when you disagree with them. Otherwise a person will reasonably assume you, in fact, agree.

This is the primary reason I deal with people on a quote level. I want them to know exactly what I am addressing and who I am addressing it to. I don't go out of my way to defend other people unless the have a very good point but are flailing... I may add my 2 cents in. But, I just don't want to get caught "agreeing" with something someone says because I either missed it or didn't read it.

[GroobyKrissy]

I didn't bring up CD/TV first, if you look back to my initial post on this thread there is no mention of CD/TV and I am all for LGBT organizations. It was you who mentioned CD/TV here:

to which I replied;

I wasn't mentioning my friend who is CD and in the Navy to make fun of him. I was merely being very blunt about the difference between CD and TS to that poster I was conversing with. It seems you are taking my statement as some kind of negative. I don't see anything wrong with what he does, I wouldn't be his friend otherwise. I pointed out to the poster an exact example of how a CD is different from transwomen in that he (the CD) can go about his life as regular "joe" after a Fet party like normal, and I am always transsexual.

Your first point is a fair one... sort of. The mention is part of a QUESTION which is far different than the mention in the following statement. If I ask how many apples and oranges are in a basket, and your answer contains information about nectarines, you've added information into the equation. In other words, I mentioned the CD/TV community in the question because otherwise it makes no sense... there is no comparative value against the TS community. The point of the question had nothing to do with the CD/TV community. The point of the question was about the TS community's treatment of said community. I don't think you're going to get that difference and it is a small one anyway. I concede the point.

Your second point. You MISSED my actual point. The point in my comment is not that you were making fun of him. The point is that YOU (yes YOU) brought your friend, a CD, into a discussion about equality. The point is that THIS KIND OF ANECDOTE ALWAYS finds its way into a discussion via a TS to illustrate some supposed "unfairness" or "difference" between TS and CD/TV. The point I was making is, stop with that already. We get it... CD/TV are not TS. Now, have your argument stand on its own without demeaning someone else. I pointed out how you could have done so very simply without even mentioning your friend at all.

[GroobyKrissy]

I never said CD/TV take away or infringe upon the rights of any ts, please show me where I said that...

Where did I say anything about CD's being silly or something to laugh at? My point wasn't to only show inequality, but to show how easy it is for CD guys to go from identifying as female for a few hours to back to identifying as guy again. You're projecting whatever issues you have from those "regular discussions in the TS community" you have with others. I've always stated trans struggles are not the same as CD/TV and I don't want to be confused as CD/TV. Empathy should be shown to all groups of people as I've stated earlier. It is solely on you to feel like a statement has some humor in it. I found nothing humorous in it nor was there any intended.

Tacit agreement. Tacit agreement, and tacit agreement. Are you starting to see a pattern?

If you don't agree with something someone has said, when you've already defended their position, it is incumbent on YOU to speak up when you don't agree. This person obviously thinks you agree with everything she has already stated... I assumed you did because you didn't say otherwise.

[GroobyKrissy]

IN CLOSING - FINALLY RIGHT!

Let me say this. I have found almost 100% of the time, discussions like this involving the TS community and an "outsider" challenging beliefs ends up ultimately a couple of ways:

You're just an angry person who is angry or jealous of the TS community (Remy).

You're just a CD or a man who can't understand so shut up (Bella).

My original point... proven here.

[BellaBellucci]

I'm not in cahoots with Remy. In fact, we disagreed on another thread, except that unlike with you, we each kept a cool head.

As to you: cognitive dissonance. It is a bitch.

~BB~

[Ms.Stepford]

Wow! Lotsa words happened. I've been fucking for the last six hours though so I'll be popping some Xanax to counteract the coke and going to bed with a slightly sore asshole.

I feel like my time tonight has been well-spent.

[LilyRox]

That's a lot of fucking :P

[GroobyKrissy]

Remy,

Good morning.

I am going to answer this indirectly simply because I think the temptation will be strong on your part to echo the sentiment, and I want you to realize, understand, and pick up on the manipulation here.

I never said that you and Bella were in "cahoots". This would imply that I have some sort of conspiracy that you two are PM'ing each other for advice, etc. before writing your pieces. I do not.

What I have said is that Bella has regurgitated her filth, and you have, in this thread defended some of her points of view. Since then, you have not voiced any further disagreement with them (besides my one example). THAT is tacit agreement and the main point of several of my last posts. The fact that disagreement exists between you two outside of this thread... not even pertinent.

This is historically (and transparently) Bella's MO. Pay someone a compliment, get them "on her side" for a point or two, then just go absolutely off the rails crazy, then pretend that the world agrees with HER...because no one (props to Maddygirl here) calls her out on her utter nonsense. If that doesn't work it is a negative campaign, demeaning, dismissal, and etc. Oh, and of course... the "BFGoBella" - cognitive dissonance - talk about delusional. Anyway.

You know what, let's just get down to it.

What, re-reading Bella's entire posts (and this goes for anyone involved in this entire thread), do you disagree with? Do you agree with? Let's start from there. You don't have to get into a big discussion about why... just list them out... because I believe that there is a lot there that no sane, reasonable person could possibly believe.

[nysprod]

Bella unquestionably is a person living with a lot of anger issues...

[Remy757Photog]

Look. This is what I mean by TACIT AGREEMENT. If, in a discussion, you align yourself with somebody and defend their beliefs without stating what you actually disagree with them with... you have tacitly agreed with their points. This is a pretty common practice in having a discussion among numerous people. Instead of restating what has already been said by someone you agree with, you either defend their points (as you have done here) or you voice a disagreement (haven't seen you do this yet, except in that one weak example I mentioned earlier).

So, when I state these things, it is because YOU have tacitly agreed with the comments that Bella has already made. Let's try this out.

I haven't agreed/aligned to anything Bella has said, there is one single point where she agrees to something I said, there is a difference. I'm not having a conversation with Bella in this thread. I was having a conversation with you, Broncofan, fivekatz, and the original OP (LilyRox). Show me one post where I spoke to Bella directly. Am I also agreeing with everything robertlouis, nysprod, MsStepford etc said? Am I also conversing with them? By your ideology that means I also agree with everything that is said by anyone on this forum/threads that I don't explicit say I don't agree with. lol Utter foolishness. Your argument with this ideology is self defeating, as I didn't disagree with 'nysprod' when he stated that

Well said...I've been reading this thread all day and why Bella felt the need to come on here and attack Krissy, I have no idea.

There is a thread titled "Facebook girls" and I've been stating that it is wrong to place private images of transwomen on this porn forum without their permission. So by your reasoning since you didn't explicitly disagree with all the people who are saying "keep the thread going" you agree with them. lol That would be dumb of me to make such an assumption that you don't care about that issue just because you haven't spoken out specifically against it.

At the end of the day, as I stated, I thought you were CD because of the use of the term on your site (which you perfectly explained and I accept) not because of anything Bella said. I said I "don't support whatever Bella is getting at" that ultimately is on you to feel that that is not enough disagreement, you are clearly looking for people to take sides and it has to be either yours or Bella's, but I'm my own individual person and have my own thoughts on matters that I can choose to or not to speak upon as I see fit. It really seems like no matter how I would have worded it you still would have felt I was only saying it because of Bella. It popped into my head because YOU said "I have CHOSEN (I actually have the financial capability to do so) NOT to actually transition at this point in life" I thought it was awesome that you wanted to transition at all, I had no idea you wanted to transition because on your Fetlife page you choose to label yourself not as MtF but as CD/TV. If you feel that for marketing purposes its better to label yourself CD/TV even though you are MtF on social networks that's fine, get that money girl.

Next time someone says something that you think is incorrect, but you've already defended part of their statements... start out a comment with, "Hey, this portion of their comment is wrong... I don't agree with it... but, I agree with this." If you just defend someone, you can be assumed to be agreeing with their statements.

Bella has stated pretty clearly the following items which I assumed you agree with because you haven't stated otherwise during this entire discussion:

A. If you don't transition, you have no right to call yourself TS (in this discussion, that would mean I would be considered, CD/TV or just plain male - both of which are obviously demeaning to someone who identifies as TS - i.e. - less of a person).

B. If you are not TS, you cannot speak on behalf or or even really understand the TS community.

C. About the hormone pill question... WOW. You really do not have a sense of humor at all, do you? You really do not know when someone is being sarcastic, do you? The point is... DEFINE TRANSITION EXACTLY. Because I will guess if you get 30 self-ID'd TS into a room and ask them what "transition means"... you'll get 30 different answers. THAT was the point of the question... Bella is fond of saying "If you don't transition... but has yet to state where that starts, what the process looks like, where it ends, etc.

D. Kind of rhetorical question... my last one. But again... tacit agreement to Bella, who has clearly stated that transition is a MUST if you are TS. I haven't heard you say that you don't believe that. Even this statement by you, "I wasn't making the argument that TS must transition." isn't really a "That is an insane point and I denounce it" type of response. It is a parsing of words... Yes, you weren't making that argument... but no, you weren't arguing against it either.

I don't have to word anything the specific way you want just to satisfy what you feel is the only way of agreeing or disagreeing with someone.

As I clearly stated toward Broncofan

No, this is the case for just about all CD/TV. Are you suggesting that there are CD/TV that live 24/7 as female but still identify as male? If he said he felt like he was born in the wrong body and felt he needed to transition than I would consider him transsexual, otherwise he is just CD/TV enjoying wearing the clothes when the mood suits him. In and of itself, my belief is toward CD/TV is whatever makes you happy, but don't consider your struggle to be the same as mine.

I did not say he is only a transsexual after he starts transition, I've known ts that have chosen not to transition until they finish school, until their kids turn 18, all manner of reasons, you seem like an open person in that you mentioned you are choosing not to transition, so I figured I would ask your particular reason. I even explained why I didn't transition at 10 when I first started going to therapy to Broncofan. How is that in agreement with the crap you are accusing me of above?

Define transition; moving, changing from one state of being to another.

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions and just ask plainly like I did.