LGBT lost in TRANSlation?

[robertlouis]

Hmmm. Given where Lily started out with this thread 17 pages ago, the ensuing and occasionally fiery debate might seem to confirm the views of the strident gays and lesbians about fragmentation among the "T" part of the acronym. Just sayin'.

[LilyRox]

CD - M who derives sexual gratification from wearing F clothing
TS - Person who believes they have been born into the wrong body

For both of these to be completely true. I think it would require someone who loves girls (bisexual or lesbian) and someone who is literally in love with their self.

Because if they truly think they are in the wrong body when they look into the mirror at their self when they're dressed, they are seeing what they believe is their true inner self.

I don't think it's entirely impossible, but I think it's exceedingly rare. There are rare cases of people (cis/trans) who get off to seeing their true inner self in the mirror.

It's important to note that you truly feel like your inner self, otherwise; it would be on the border lines of taboo (fetish) and being sexual aroused by someone you know your not.


Lol this thread is all over the place

[GroobyKrissy]

Well whats on the lines between wanting to be attractive vs. sexual gratification? I love to be attractive, but I don't get a boner when I get dressed.

You have a fascination with boners. (That is a joke... not meant as serious).

But, that does make the point... sexual gratification does not actually mean you have a boner, as you suggest. Some Crossdressers (and I have spoken to some) just like the feeling of coming home after a day of work and putting on women's clothing. There is nothing overtly "sexual" about it. It is simply gratifying, relaxing, or soothing to them.

[trish]

To harken back to the OP’s original question, it seems to me that the last decade has seen a stupendous change of social attitude toward gays and lesbians and that attitudes toward transsexuals have changed in parallel if not in scale.

The political efforts and the support of many different groups over the past several decades slowly pushed the recognition and acceptance of diverse gender identities into the public consciousness. Protests, parades, letter campaigns, lobbying, canvassing for candidates, people coming out etc. etc. Lesbians, gays, transsexuals, transgender, feminists, bisexuals, intersexuals, queers, straight allies, etc. etc. have all helped to advanced cultural mores in our direction. LGBT is not an official acronym, not an official organization. It doesn’t contain a letter for every contributor. It is a social movement. A movement that has got some real inertia. We’re included, if we want to be. We’re right there in the letter T. All we need to do is continue the fight, and support each other. I really don’t see why a transsexual would be against this movement, or why a transsexual would want to ostracize herself from it. Perhaps fear that one might be confused with the gay cross-dresser protesting along side you? Fuck that. Embrace him. He’s on your side. You should be on his.

[GroobyKrissy]

To harken back to the OP’s original question, it seems to me that the last decade has seen a stupendous change of social attitude toward gays and lesbians and that attitudes toward transsexuals have changed in parallel if not in scale.

The political efforts and the support of many different groups over the past several decades slowly pushed the recognition and acceptance of diverse gender identities into the public consciousness. Protests, parades, letter campaigns, lobbying, canvassing for candidates, people coming out etc. etc. Lesbians, gays, transsexuals, transgender, feminists, bisexuals, intersexuals, queers, straight allies, etc. etc. have all helped to advanced cultural mores in our direction. LGBT is not an official acronym, not an official organization. It doesn’t contain a letter for every contributor. It is a social movement. A movement that has got some real inertia. We’re included, if we want to be. We’re right there in the letter T. All we need to do is continue the fight, and support each other. I really don’t see why a transsexual would be against this movement, or why a transsexual would want to ostracize herself from it. Perhaps fear that one might be confused with the gay cross-dresser protesting along side you? Fuck that. Embrace him. He’s on your side. You should be on his.

My point.

[Remy757Photog]

"You're CD so shut up." Nice.

Do you NOT understand the concept of marketing? Social Media Profiles, Websites, Google + pages... it is MARKETING. I market my site TO THOSE who are my largest audience. I know this is my largest audience because I have done the research.

If my largest audience was "Guys who love using peanut butter as hair gel" guess what all my profiles would say... "I love using peanut butter as hair gel." Is this concept of marketing yourself really that difficult to grasp?

I've never told you to shut up so calm down. you are having your own conversation with yourself and pretending I'm saying these things to you. I'm simply pointing out why i thought you were CD until you explained that you are in fact ts and that CD was only for marketing purposes. I have barely had any conversations with you, I don't sit on this forum following your every post. I only knew that you called yourself CD on fet because ayear ago you told me you joined Fetlife and when i went to your profile it says CD/tv. we have not spoken personally to each other since then, so I wasn't aware that you only put CD on your fet profile for marketing until this thread when you explained such, and itotally accept and respect that. on my profile it says lesbian so guess what, people think I'm lesbian until I tell them otherwise. I don't understand why that is hard for you to understand. I'm not coming from your mystical place of CD/TV hate land which even if I was wouldn't apply to you as you are ts!

[GroobyKrissy]

I've never told you to shut up so calm down. you are having your own conversation with yourself and pretending I'm saying these things to you. I'm simply pointing out why i thought you were CD until you explained that you are in fact ts and that CD was only for marketing purposes. I have barely had any conversations with you, I don't sit on this forum following your every post. I only knew that you called yourself CD on fet because ayear ago you told me you joined Fetlife and when i went to your profile it says CD/tv. we have not spoken personally to each other since then, so I wasn't aware that you only put CD on your fet profile for marketing until this thread when you explained such, and itotally accept and respect that. on my profile it says lesbian so guess what, people think I'm lesbian until I tell them otherwise. I don't understand why that is hard for you to understand. I'm not coming from your mystical place of CD/TV hate land which even if I was wouldn't apply to you as you are ts!

Remy...

The POINT is this.

WHY WAS IT PERTINENT TO THE CONVERSATION AT ALL?

WHAT GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO BRING MY GENDER IDENTIFICATION INTO THE CONVERSATION AT ALL?

STATE YOUR PURPOSE FOR BRINGING IT UP.

Just answer (honestly) those two questions and state your response to the statement.

Here is your answer... like it or not. And, yes, after I write this, you can indeed (RIGHTFULLY THIS TIME) accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

You thought you were being clever. You thought if you could get me to admit or prove that I identify as CD/TV, then your arguments would have a more solid foundation. Plain and simple. When I had an actual reason, you had to backtrack out... and you did it poorly. Instead of just apologizing and saying, "Hey, you know what... I could have posed the question better. Sorry." YOU MADE EXCUSES for it. This logically implies that you understood what you had done and had a motive behind it. It wasn't just a, "Nice day, isn't it?" type of question. AT ALL. To say it was is absolutely ludicrous and completely, intellectually dishonest.

[BBaggins06]

[GroobyKrissy]

I've never told you to shut up so calm down. you are having your own conversation with yourself and pretending I'm saying these things to you.

I love this line of reasoning... "I didn't actually say the words so Krissy must be making it up."

Good grief.

Fine, let's just re-fucking-hash this whole conversation and pretend.

Let's pretend that to your question, I said, "Yes, I identify as a CD/TV and that is it. I love dressing up in lacy panties and I get a big, fat boner doing it. That is my whole fucking purpose in life."

What would you very next line have been? Let's have some intellectual honesty here. I'm guessing it would be (maybe said a tiny bit nicer)...

"Then shut the fuck up. What gives you the right to speak about "Trans" issues, you silly CD." (If not said directly from you, DEFINITELY said directly from Bella - with no disagreement voiced by you.)

Anyone have a difficult time believing this would have transpired had my answer been different?

That is why you brought up the question in the first place. That is why you thought you were so clever by going to a Fetlife profile, by referencing terms I use on my site... For God's sake. Just admit it and be done with it. I've already agreed to let this conversation go but you just keep on digging your hole to fill with shitty nonsense (and yes, this is me starting to become irritated now because you have ceased even trying to make any attempt at being intellectually honest).

[BellaBellucci]

I really don’t see why a transsexual would be against this movement, or why a transsexual would want to ostracize herself from it. Perhaps fear that one might be confused with the gay cross-dresser protesting along side you? Fuck that. Embrace him. He’s on your side. You should be on his.

This is my issue with this entire discussion: if CD/TV people actually were for the cause of progress for all gender/orientation variant people, and not just for validation (read: patronization) as 'women,' or their silly bathroom 'rights,' I would agree with you entirely. But they don't. And they don't. Crossdressers hide out from their wives and kids in dingy hotel rooms and take selfies of themselves dressed like 15-year olds when they're 50.

That said, I don't want to be confused with someone who is intent on forcing society to change the way they view the gender spectrum as opposed to just changing themselves to at least attempt to assimilate with it (as opposed to those who prefer to be a member of a counter-culture, which is actually a large apart of what this whole thing is really about), and all under the guise of 'solidarity.' There is no solidarity. They and we present the mainstream with entirely different narratives, and I'm sorry, but ours is immeasurably more important than theirs.

The biggest kick? Krissy is a self-identified CD. If she didn't think there was anything wrong with that, she wouldn't have removed her own circumstances from her consideration of the rest of her argument for CD acceptance, and she certainly wouldn't be defensively claiming TS status instead, just because she felt like she was pressed to do so for acceptance by someone who is TS. She'd just say, 'yeah, I'm a CD, what of it?' But she didn't.

That's an inferiority complex, plain and simple. And it proves everything I've said in this thread about CD/TV people intentionally identifying their gender based on convenience, not identity. They can't do that once they transition. They lose their male privilege permanently. As I've said, that's not a choice; it's ambivalence - a non-choice, if you will. If she said she was genderqueer, that would be one thing, but this is playing both sides.

Krissy's not only wrong here, she's the living embodiment of my entire argument: defensive and keen to say whatever is necessary to save face.
And for the record, I tried REALLY hard to put this point as gently as possible. Krissy's obsessive arguing with herself makes it very difficult. Please don't shoot the messenger.

And finally, the idea that anybody here would take my side in an argument simply because they're one of my sycophants is hysterical; I don't have any of those. I'm the proud pariah around here. You can't have that both ways, either.

~BB~