LGBT lost in TRANSlation?

[GroobyKrissy]

@Broncofan,

Standing in line!

I haven't read all of your posts yet since I was working on mine but so far, nice work on TRYING to have a dialogue. Now you see why I choose not to with this particular person. It is insanity. Have fun!

[Remy757Photog]

2. WHY I DON'T / HAVEN'T TRANSITION
The short answer is, "Why in the HELL does that matter to you at all?"

So, what makes you think that I don't have plans to transition?

I didn't say you don't plan to transition. I read your words towards Bella

"...Because I have CHOSEN (I actually have the financial capability to do so) NOT to actually transition at this point in life?"

and it made me wonder what could possibly be holding you back. You appear to be in a unique position where you don't have 'outside' factors that typically hold a person that identifies as a woman back from transitioning.

I of course don't know you personally so it could totally be family reasons for not transitioning. Or you could already be living full time as a woman, and just don't want to take hormones, etc. I am not personally of the mind that you have to

"...spend all my savings right now, get the best doctors, have the perfect body that I want, and be fully "transitioned"

just to start your transition. I personally haven't spent all my savings, I don't have the perfect body that I want, and I am by no means fully transitioned, but I am still transitioning.

So here is the thing. My personal opinion is that transitioning is a deeply personal and intimate thing. It changes your ENTIRE life, obviously. I, in fact, DO have plans in the future but it will be on my terms and in a quiet, insignificant way once I leave the porn industry.

So basically you want to wait til after porn career is over... fair enough

HOWEVER, I'm also looking out for my future. I save money. I put it away for emergencies, retirement, more traveling, nice things, etc. My transitional process does not bother me to the extent that I must go out right now, at this very moment, get boobs and cut my penis off. If it did, I would.

Who even refers to transitioning in this manner? I have to say you are the first TS who repeatedly refers to transitioning in such a crass manner. Most people don't start their transition by doing those things you mentioned above. It's fairly well known that taking hormones and allowing your body and mind to transition from male to female is also part of the process. Hormones affect more than just your physical body, also the mind. GRS (not cut my penis off) is generally a step that occurs later during ones transition. Hormones aren't necessarily that expensive especially when a person can manage their money appropriately. I'm generally shocked when girls chooses to never take hormones and just get breast implants starting from the boy chest stage, but to each their own. Hormones really is about much more than just growing boobs though.

So, I answered your questions... here are mine:

Am I, or is anyone, more or less of a person because I haven't transitioned?

No, you aren't less of a person. lol Why on earth would you think that I feel you are less of a person or that I referred to you as less of a person? You seem to have a fair amount of hostility boiling inside you.

Have I demonstrated that I don't or can't understand all sides of the issue BECAUSE I haven't transitioned? If so, where?

No, nor did I say you couldn't, if you feel I said you, GroobyKrissy, don't know anything about trans issues, by all means point it out to me

When you take that first hormone pill, does that magically make you suddenly "TS"? Or is it only when your penis actually hits the floor?

Again, what the hell does "penis actually hits the floor" mean? lol Where in the world (aside from porn) does a trans woman penis hit the floor? No one refers to GRS like that if you feel that is some sort of euphemism. By the way guys the penis is inverted, just saying so they don't getting confused. lol

Do you see how insane an argument of "TS must transition" really is?

I think you are confusing me with someone else, I wasn't making the argument that TS must transition. My statements were that CD/TV struggles are not the same as TS, there should be empathy for all people, and that I would not want to be lumped together with CD/TV as we are different.

[Remy757Photog]

What I AM stating is that what the CD/TV community does or does not do SHOULD NOT MATTER when it comes to "equality"... That is an issue of behavior... and as I already stated, if you are attacking someone on the grounds of behavior, you have already lost your argument.

I am not nor have I attacked anyone at all.

Again, I will ask you this as well...

WHY, in a discussion about EQUALITY, do YOU feel it necessary to bring up the CD/TV community AT ALL? What is the pertinence of your anecdote about your Navy friend except to say that he has a proclivity for wearing his wife's panties?

I didn't bring up CD/TV first, if you look back to my initial post on this thread there is no mention of CD/TV and I am all for LGBT organizations. It was you who mentioned CD/TV here:

So... do you think this may have something to do with the fact that the TG (included here for "popular" understanding of equal terms with "TS") /TS community (generally) has a rampant hatred of and towards the CD/TV community, demonstrating the very (and actual) bigotry that they condemn in others? The hypocrisy is stunning and makes a mockery of their argument for equal treatment.

to which I replied;

Very good point. Though I don't really think it is hatred of/toward cd/tv so much as the hatred of/toward mainstream society that lumps transsexuals with cd/tv, as if we are all one and the same. I have more than a few associates that are cd, and if I was to go out with them and someone called me a cd I would be offended, though to be clear, I'm not one to act out and cause scenes so that person wouldn't even know I was offended. It's nothing personally against any cd, just that with shows like Rupaul Drag Race etc they tend to see more CD than actual Transsexuals and lump us all together. While I do agree that all people should fight for equal rights of all other groups of people, the struggles of being transsexual and the rights we fight for are not exactly the same as CD/TV/Gay/Bi/Les.

I wasn't mentioning my friend who is CD and in the Navy to make fun of him. I was merely being very blunt about the difference between CD and TS to that poster I was conversing with. It seems you are taking my statement as some kind of negative. I don't see anything wrong with what he does, I wouldn't be his friend otherwise. I pointed out to the poster an exact example of how a CD is different from transwomen in that he (the CD) can go about his life as regular "joe" after a Fet party like normal, and I am always transsexual.

That is not a commentary on THAT PERSON TAKING AWAY or INFRINGING UPON the rights of ANY TS individual. That is a commentary on one person having a fetish... and indulging in it.

I never said CD/TV take away or infringe upon the rights of any ts, please show me where I said that...

You could have just as easily made the entire point by the very last sentence, "Transwomen can't even serve in the military!" That is a statement of inequality.

All your anecdote did was to serve as a "giggle and a laugh" about those "silly CD's". Again, THIS is the stuff that is REGULAR in discussions with the TS community. It is something it just can't resist.

Where did I say anything about CD's being silly or something to laugh at? My point wasn't to only show inequality, but to show how easy it is for CD guys to go from identifying as female for a few hours to back to identifying as guy again. You're projecting whatever issues you have from those "regular discussions in the TS community" you have with others. I've always stated trans struggles are not the same as CD/TV and I don't want to be confused as CD/TV. Empathy should be shown to all groups of people as I've stated earlier. It is solely on you to feel like a statement has some humor in it. I found nothing humorous in it nor was there any intended.

[BellaBellucci]

~BB~

[GroobyKrissy]

Look Remy...

This is where conversations and discussions derail. When one party cannot, or will not, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their actions, spoken AND unspoken and their words, said and implied.

I asked for a very, very simple thing.

BE INTELLECTUALLY HONEST
You have stated BY TACIT AGREEMENT that you adhere to this insanity that Bella preaches (by defending her positions). I have now read this thread in its entirety SEVERAL times through. Not ONCE (if it is there... point it out to me - there is a very, very weak, "...this is in no way to support whatever Bella is getting at..." comment, which I will address in a second), do I see YOU come out and say that what she is stating is madness... it is insane.

If you want to have an HONEST discussion about that, fine. But you MUST BE intellectually honest about what you actually believe... otherwise, it is absolutely POINTLESS to have an actual discussion.

Being intellectually honest means you don't say, "...this is in no way to support whatever Bella is getting at..." That is a total cop out. It is like those times when people say, "Not be a jerk BUT..." and then they go ahead and be a jerk... like one excuses the other. You strike me as an reasonable and somewhat honest person, yet this mockery of a question is what you choose to pull?

Remy, YOU must realize YOU are being played. This is what Bella excels at doing, playing one audience off the other and enjoying the mayhem she causes. I don't understand how you can miss this. But anyway...

If YOU want to have a conversation with ME about something, then fine. Let's do it. Let your arguments stand absolutely on their own merits... AS MINE DO.

In the interests of civility again, I will answer your comments separately. But please, in future...

THINK FOR YOURSELF.
TALK FOR YOURSELF.
REASON FOR YOURSELF.

All I see right now is a parrot of Bella because, hey, at least you know you're going to get someone to "Thumbs Up" your post, right? Whoopie.

[GroobyKrissy]

I didn't say you don't plan to transition. I read your words towards Bella and it made me wonder what could possibly be holding you back. You appear to be in a unique position where you don't have 'outside' factors that typically hold a person that identifies as a woman back from transitioning.

I try to write my words as carefully as I can and try to insure that they are accurate as to what I am saying. I ASSUME others are doing the same. Thus, I assume what they write is what they mean, and that they are taking responsibility for those words.

If you ask somebody "Why do you choose not to transition?" you must realize that is an "ongoing" question... that is, it has no finality to it. If you had meant to say that you weren't sure about my transition status, you could have worded the question many different ways:

"Why, at this point in your life, are you choosing not to transition?"

"I am unaware of your actual transition status. I think it is pertinent for XXX reason in this discussion. Would you mind if I inquired about it?"

"Have you made any steps or do you plan on making any steps towards transition?"

Do you see how those questions have finality to them? Your question did not and I took it as such. The implication is that you do not think (or are assuming) that I have any such plans and that is how I wrote my answer.

Just like I said earlier, "poor communication on my part" AND TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT, you should do the same here. Your question was, evidently, not what you were, in fact asking.

[GroobyKrissy]

Who even refers to transitioning in this manner? I have to say you are the first TS who repeatedly refers to transitioning in such a crass manner. Most people don't start their transition by doing those things you mentioned above. It's fairly well known that taking hormones and allowing your body and mind to transition from male to female is also part of the process. Hormones affect more than just your physical body, also the mind. GRS (not cut my penis off) is generally a step that occurs later during ones transition. Hormones aren't necessarily that expensive especially when a person can manage their money appropriately. I'm generally shocked when girls chooses to never take hormones and just get breast implants starting from the boy chest stage, but to each their own. Hormones really is about much more than just growing boobs though.

Really? You really didn't see one ounce of sarcasm in my wording there? You took that completely seriously? You felt that I was so serious about that one statement that it is the largest paragraph in your reply? You really think, after I just stated that I think "transitioning is a deeply personal and intimate thing" that THAT is how I actually speak about it?

I stated it that way to make a point. Asking the question in the first place was crude. I answered the question crude-ly. I accepted it pretty graciously, considering.

Please tell me... how is my PERSONAL transition status of any concern of yours AT ALL?

How or why is it pertinent at all to this discussion? Here is your answer. You saw Bella seize upon it, thought it was good for cheap points and a little mockery, and hid it behind a mask of "Hey, I don't want to be a jerk BUT..." Nice.

Tell me why, YOU have the right to question the gender identification of ANYONE here?

Then tell me when, I have EVER questioned the gender identity of ANYONE on this board, ANYONE at Fetlife, ANYONE... ANYWHERE? That's a lot of research so here is your answer... NEVER.

I base my points on reason... not by attacking, questioning, or dismissing someone's gender identity.

[broncofan]

Both statements by Remy
"That one statement shows an inherent flaw, transsexuals transition from one sex to another"

"I think you are confusing me with someone else, I wasn't making the argument that TS must transition."

If by making the argument you mean flat out saying it in so many words, then you were.

[GroobyKrissy]

No, you aren't less of a person. lol Why on earth would you think that I feel you are less of a person or that I referred to you as less of a person? You seem to have a fair amount of hostility boiling inside you.

No, nor did I say you couldn't, if you feel I said you, GroobyKrissy, don't know anything about trans issues, by all means point it out to me

Again, what the hell does "penis actually hits the floor" mean? lol Where in the world (aside from porn) does a trans woman penis hit the floor? No one refers to GRS like that if you feel that is some sort of euphemism. By the way guys the penis is inverted, just saying so they don't getting confused. lol

I think you are confusing me with someone else, I wasn't making the argument that TS must transition. My statements were that CD/TV struggles are not the same as TS, there should be empathy for all people, and that I would not want to be lumped together with CD/TV as we are different.

Look. This is what I mean by TACIT AGREEMENT. If, in a discussion, you align yourself with somebody and defend their beliefs without stating what you actually disagree with them with... you have tacitly agreed with their points. This is a pretty common practice in having a discussion among numerous people. Instead of restating what has already been said by someone you agree with, you either defend their points (as you have done here) or you voice a disagreement (haven't seen you do this yet, except in that one weak example I mentioned earlier).

So, when I state these things, it is because YOU have tacitly agreed with the comments that Bella has already made. Let's try this out.

Next time someone says something that you think is incorrect, but you've already defended part of their statements... start out a comment with, "Hey, this portion of their comment is wrong... I don't agree with it... but, I agree with this." If you just defend someone, you can be assumed to be agreeing with their statements.

Bella has stated pretty clearly the following items which I assumed you agree with because you haven't stated otherwise during this entire discussion:

A. If you don't transition, you have no right to call yourself TS (in this discussion, that would mean I would be considered, CD/TV or just plain male - both of which are obviously demeaning to someone who identifies as TS - i.e. - less of a person).

B. If you are not TS, you cannot speak on behalf or or even really understand the TS community.

C. About the hormone pill question... WOW. You really do not have a sense of humor at all, do you? You really do not know when someone is being sarcastic, do you? The point is... DEFINE TRANSITION EXACTLY. Because I will guess if you get 30 self-ID'd TS into a room and ask them what "transition means"... you'll get 30 different answers. THAT was the point of the question... Bella is fond of saying "If you don't transition... but has yet to state where that starts, what the process looks like, where it ends, etc.

D. Kind of rhetorical question... my last one. But again... tacit agreement to Bella, who has clearly stated that transition is a MUST if you are TS. I haven't heard you say that you don't believe that. Even this statement by you, "I wasn't making the argument that TS must transition." isn't really a "That is an insane point and I denounce it" type of response. It is a parsing of words... Yes, you weren't making that argument... but no, you weren't arguing against it either.

[LilyRox]