LGBT lost in TRANSlation?

[broncofan]

Wrong. The circular argument comes from them. They may identify as men when they're not 'dressed' (again, eww), but when they are, many identify as female and demand to be treated accordingly as if their master identity was female. Invariably it's not. It's all a fantasy. Clothes don't make the woman, not even temporarily, and I don't want to be forced to cater to someone else's fetish.

~BB~

Do you believe that before you transitioned you did not have gender dysphoria?

[Remy757Photog]

I don't want to be victim to a slalom of signing and co-signing. It's clear we disagree, but it should be somewhat clear what we're disagreeing over. You and Remy seem to believe that one cannot identify unless their actions make clear to the outside world what that identity is. The corollary of this would be that someone doesn't have a belief unless they are willing to reflect that belief in action. It's something B.F Skinner would agree with to be sure.

The examples with TV's and CD's aren't nearly as helpful as they first appear because you are discussing behaviors that may be particular only to the individuals you are discussing. You also appear to be defining cd and tv in ways that make the rest of the argument circular. For instance, if a cd or tv is defined as someone who doesn't identify as female, then you've decided in your own favor by choosing a definition mutually exclusive with transsexual. If they are only individuals who do not dress as female full time then you don't have hermetically sealed categories.

Anyhow, no offense intended.

Well let's be clear on this, TV and CD do not ever ALWAYS identify as female, they ONLY do so when they are dressed in female clothes. If you walked up to John that is a CD while he is at work and asked him if he is a female he would say 'No' and he would also use the mens bathroom. Why, because he is a male. There is no desire whatsoever, to have his gender markers changed on his ID's, to live the life of a transsexual woman, to have GRS, etc. TV/CD only identify as female when dolled up, I on the other hand can get out of bed, walk over to the 7-11 with my hair wrapped up wearing a jogging pants and some random shirt but I'm still identifying as female despite not looking overly glamorous and still accepted by society as female, because when you look at me that's what you see no matter the time of day, no matter the clothes I wear, everything about me aside exudes female point blank.

You are trying to make it seem like CD/TV always identify as female just like us transsexuals and that sir will never be the case.

[broncofan]

It depends how you define identify. You are defining it in terms of creating an appearance to the outside world. If that were the case, then those with gender dysphoria at a young age do not identify as female gender-wise because they have not yet transitioned.

[nysprod]

I don't want to be forced to cater to someone else's fetish.

~BB~

Isn't that your business though? Catering to people's (read men's) fetishes?

[broncofan]

If you walked up to John that is a CD while he is at work and asked him if he is a female he would say 'No' and he would also use the mens bathroom. .

If he gave the opposite answer would that change your conclusion? What you are talking about is a particular character rather than an inherent one I think.

[BellaBellucci]

Do you believe that before you transitioned you did not have gender dysphoria?

No, I knew I had it, but I alternatingly rationalized and repressed it. That doesn't mean that I thought I was a woman. It meant that I was a male with a female brain. In order to make myself more comfortable with that, I transitioned my body to match. A CD/TV has no such need. They demand the rewards for doing so without actually having to do the work.

Furthermore, this entire argument in nowhere near gender-specific. If we didn't care about our personal expression, we'd all drive the same car, wear the same clothes, and accept any treatment that came our way. We present the way we do because we want to show the world who we are. We can't participate in that system and then say things like 'I don't want to be judged by my clothes (or hormones, or whatever).'

Worse still, are the CD/TV people who outright claim to be TS. This is interesting because true TS women claim to be women... and they are. But using this terminology forces others, such as yourself, to give TV/CD people the benefit of the doubt (read: allow them to force you into their fetish dreamworld).

Isn't that your business though? Catering to people's (read men's) fetishes?

I don't work for free, sweetheart. Do you?

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

I agree with you absolutely as regards the difference, Bella, but I don't understand the hostility.

It's frustration, actually. There are people who intentionally muddy the definition of transsexualism as a means of finding a way to be included in it, or worse, to invalidate others. Sometimes they even do so out of *gasp* repressed homosexuality!

'It's only gay if...'

~BB~

[Amy Gray]

One of these days I need to post a picture of me as a drag king just so I can make heads explode.

[broncofan]

No, I knew I had it, but I alternatingly rationalized and repressed it. That doesn't mean that I thought I was a woman.

I don't work for free, sweetheart. Do you?

~BB~

I think it does mean you thought you were a woman; that is in terms of your gender identification, and not in terms of biological sex. Gender dysphoria means that you identify as female/male when your sex is male/female.

We can split hairs over what's conscious and unconscious though. So you repressed the fact that you thought you were a woman and therefore you didn't really think you're a woman?

[broncofan]

'It's only gay if...'

~BB~

Right, but your motive couldn't possibly be to put-down Krissy out of personal animus could it?