Detroit is bankrupt.

[Ben]

Quoting from the first paragraph of an article that appeared in 1999:
'Jesse Ventura, Governor of Minnesota, took a position that is extremely rare in state government. He said that neither the state nor the city nor any other unit of government should spend any money on funding yet another municipal ballpark or providing a taxpayer subsidy to professional ball teams and their media flunkies. "The taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for new stadiums," said Ventura.'

And: the rest of the article --
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=270

[95racer]

Quoting from the first paragraph of an article that appeared in 1999:
'Jesse Ventura, Governor of Minnesota, took a position that is extremely rare in state government. He said that neither the state nor the city nor any other unit of government should spend any money on funding yet another municipal ballpark or providing a taxpayer subsidy to professional ball teams and their media flunkies. "The taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for new stadiums," said Ventura.'

And: the rest of the article --
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=270

Agreed.

[Ben]

[Ben in LA]

This was sent to me from a friend...who happens to be a conservative.

http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/08/w...Dzxbqs.twitter

[trish]

http://nyti.ms/17qIKoi

[ed_jaxon]

I see some similarities in what is happening in Chicago today and what happened in Detroit a number of years ago.

The first purely surface observation I noticed was the nickname "Murder Capital of the US". Currently Chicago is under siege, beset with shootings every day. On the block where I work, three people have been gunned down in the past year.

Back in the 80's, Detroit had that same nick and was dealing with the same issues.

People don't just sit idly by and allow that shit to consume their lives, no if they can, they move. Generally if you can move that means you have the wherewithal to marshall your resources and get out of a bad situation. What this does is cream the more upwardly mobile members of a community out of a neighborhood leaving behind a less affluent base. Home owners are replaced with renters and absentee landlords which further erodes the fabric of the community.

Likewise business owners flee as well leaving the businesses in the hands of outsiders. Family occupy the better jobs leaving the lesser paying positions to those still in the community.

Chicago in the 40's and 50's had a thriving black business community. Today those communities are home to liquor stores and churches moreso than locally owned grocery stores and hardware stores. If there is business in the community it is either foreign owned or a chain. A dollar circulates once through the community then leaves to enrich another community.

So with the collapse of business the underground economy flourishes. It benefits a states prison industrial complex if there is a ready and steady supply of inmates to occupy jail cells so its in the "societies" best interest to criminalize minor behaviors to fill the jails. Weed? Yeah we have plenty of inmates in for that. Beyond that is that smaller criminal acts lead to larger criminal acts. One gets used to being a part of the system, a system that fights to keep you there. Each inmate in the prisons is worth between 75 and 100 thousand paid for their care and housing. That money goes to pay the salaries of those who work there and that money generally stays in that community far away from the streets of Chicago.

As people flee the city the tax base erodes which means government has to make up that money somehow so they resort to regressive fees and fines that make the city even less liveable. Ridiculous fines for mundane transgressions such as meters expiring and redlight cameras and the boot. These things lead even more to abandon the city for better living conditions leading to even more ridiculous fines. Politicians are loathe to raise property taxes outright as that is generally the kiss of death politically. But realistically there are raising taxes just on the working poor who can least afford it.

I live in a nice neighborhood near the lake but I am seriously considering moving to another state and leaving this bullshit behind.

The pension mess we are dealing with is going to be painful and unfair to fix and will bring more and more fines which will run your tax base away which will create violent underground economies which will further decimate the city.

I saw it happen with Gary, now Detroit and soon Chicago if something does not change. Just last week the Chicago credit rating was downgraded by and unprecedented three levels.

Last one out turn off the lights please.

Just one man's opinion.

[Stavros]

Ed I think you offer a succinct version of the 'negative cycle' aspect of urban decline which does appear to be evident in the case of Detroit -but there is another thesis which tries to explain how Boston and New York, which both experienced the 'negative cycle' in the 1970s (New York City almost filed for bankruptcy in 1975), managed to re-invigorate their economies so that they have both experienced growth instead of decline since then.
The argument, in the link below is supported by some sophisticated statistics, but in essence argues that cities that have successfully negotiated their way into the innovation/ideas economy -which has global reach and global profit potential- have been able to take advantage of transport and communications transformations that by substantially reducing unit costs, undermine the location of manufacturing industry but benefit communications based industries in those same urban areas -which is why New York has survived manufacturing decline whereas this decline has undermined the prosperity of both Detroit and Cleveland. If you are asked to name the centres of ideas and innovation in the USA, my guess is that New York and San Francisco (adjacent to Silicon Valley) would top the list. Other cities in the mix would be Seattle, Chicago, Boston and Austin, possibly Houston (because of the oil industry). The high taxes and rents and petty crime causing 'white flight' were a problem for New York, Boston and San Francisco in the 1970s, yet they came through it by tapping into the ideas revolution which is linked to sectors such as finance and information technology which have productive outcomes with huge profit margins; this reverses the negative cycle -but it does means that formerly run-down inner cities become desirable residences so that the dilapidated, drug-addled lower East Side of Manhattan is now a much sought-after residential neighbourhood as new money can afford to buy up large chunks of real estate and turn it into lucrative housing or office space. And it changes the character of cities as the urban poor are moved to the margins -effectively thrown out of Manhattan by Mayor Giuliani, or imprisoned- which means the professional classes don't mix with what once was an economically diverse population in their own neighbourhood, and housing becomes progressively out of reach to first time buyers with new purchasers most likely to be corporations or overseas millionaires (as is the case in parts of London).
On this basis, it looks bleak for Detroit, unless Detroit can find a way to re-invent itself as a city -but Chicago ought to survive, though it doesn't mean the character of the city will survive as it has been known in the past. This shift away from manufacturing also benefits those -mostly graduates- who can slot into the knowledge economy, leaving the rest to drive buses and taxis, make coffee, and sweep the streets.
There is a similar problem in India where Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore have benefited from economic growth, but not Calcutta. And so on all over the world.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13710.pdf?new_window=1

[flabbybody]

What you describe is the natural consequence of transformation that turns undesirable run down neighborhoods into sought after expensive ones.... that's what a long term recovery is all about. You can't have it both ways stavros. Mayor Giuliani did not "throw out" the urban poor from the lower east side. We have vast areas of the Bronx and Queens that are totally livable and serviced by a highly efficient , low cost transportation system.

What strangles NYC is an antiquated red tape mess of apartment safety codes and well-meaning but looney rent controls that stifle new construction for all but the super wealthy. That's the real reason why it's nearly impossible to find a nice apt for a decent price.

[Stavros]

What you describe is the natural consequence of transformation that turns undesirable run down neighborhoods into sought after expensive ones.... that's what a long term recovery is all about. You can't have it both ways stavros. Mayor Giuliani did not "throw out" the urban poor from the lower east side. We have vast areas of the Bronx and Queens that are totally livable and serviced by a highly efficient , low cost transportation system.

What strangles NYC is an antiquated red tape mess of apartment safety codes and well-meaning but looney rent controls that stifle new construction for all but the super wealthy. That's the real reason why it's nearly impossible to find a nice apt for a decent price.

You are obviously right in the details which I am not familiar with; but is it not also the case that the NYC -perhaps Manhattan specifically?- has been able to use the knowledge economy to expand its profitability in international business, and that this is part of source of the vast sums of money that have flowed into these desirable urban areas to inflate property prices and change the identity of neighbourhoods? I think the argument is that specific local issues aside -and 'New York' has been a desirable place to be for most of the last 100 years, a cache other American cities have lacked (along with most English cities other than London)- there is a common aspect to globalisation that has affected cities, whether they have succeeded or failed to take advantage of economic and social trends. Is it the case that it was possible for the urban poor of Manhattan to move to the other Boroughs because of the low cost transportation system? Giuliani gets the stick both ways, haven't been able to get a definitive account of that period in New York's history.

[bluesoul]

Detroit Red Wings Get New $400 Million Taxpayer-Financed Stadium While the City Goes Bankrupt:

http://libertycalling.net/home/categ...-goes-bankrupt

interesting priorities