The George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Travesty

[EZWind]

Tough case, wasn't surprised by the verdict.

me too as well...not the least bit
...the operative key words here are Travesty and Florida...the 2 seem to go hand in hand....from the recount fiasco in 2000 to the current governor w/ his voter suppression and anti abortion BS and everything in between....I called it from the git go

[SugaSweet]

The prosecution blew this one plain and simple.Complete ineptitude.

[jennyj23]

If people in the media would let things be and race hustlers like Jesse and Al would have left it alone, this case would have never went to trial. It doesn't help when Obama sticks his nose in things and the justice dept. sends people in to help gin up racial unrest.

[JenniferParisHusband]

WOO HOO! About to put the law degree to some use. No offense to Dderek, who has an excellent post on this, which I've copied part of below. I've edited it for relevance to the actual charge of murder, and the lesser included charge of manslaughter.

Before I do that though, a quick lesson in Criminal Law 101. Should be fairly straight forward, but for some of the foreigners who might be looking at this, I'm kind of trying to get them up to speed.

1) First, charges. Murder has various degrees in US Courts. Murder 1, Murder 2, etc. These vary by state but most Murder charges usually have a mental state of intent to kill. That's pretty much all you really need to know about Murder. Manslaughter is tricky and varies by State, here in the USA. There are two types, voluntary and involuntary. Look, a link!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslau...ted_States_law)

With voluntary, the types of manslaughter, 1) Provocation, is you are the person provoking the altercation, and "accidentally" kill someone. As will be seen below, this doesn't apply as technically Zimmerman didn't provoke this. Imperfect Self Defense. Doens't apply as Florida has Self Defense as a complete defense. And finally, Diminished Capacity. This is usually reserved for people with mental illness or defects.

With involuntary manslaughter, there are only two rellevant types that would apply here. First, Constructive, you need to have a misdemeanor involved. As I'm going to explain below, Zimmerman was not committing any misdemeanors at the time. It seems very hard to believe, but it's actually true. The second type Criminally negligent, you really have to have acted in a way that shows you have no respect for human life, you are acting recklessly and endangering others. This is the only manslaughter type that technically applies. But under Florida law, Criminally neglegent manslaughter doesn't exist. Only Constructive.


2) Defenses - Within each criminal act, there are defenses. Self Defense is obviously the one most people go to. Insanity, duress, and others are included. But each one of these defenses is limited and may only be applied in certain circumstances. There are limits to the amount of force you can use. For example, you may only use the amount of force it takes to get a normal person to stop beating you. If you are weaker, you can pick up a log and clock someone to get the to stop. The problem is, if they've stopped, you can't wail on them with a log until they're dead, that's excessive. Only the force required to provide defense. Remember this, because why Zimmerman is free will make sense later on in this posting. There is also the concept of mitigating circumstances. With regard to manslaughter, yeah the shooting of a gun may not have been meant to kill someone, but can you aim a warning shot while getting beat down? Can you keep from flinching in a way that keeps you from a reflex pulling of the trigger?

The same perfect defense of Self Defense for Murder, works with Manslaughter too, in Florida.

3) The Irrelevant Stuff - Every other lawyer I know, knew Zimmerman was going to get off with an acquittal. It was a no-brainer to most of us. Prosecutors don't count, they think everyone is guilty and should get the chair. Real attorneys, we knew better. Stand Your Ground, that got a lot of hype in the news. It was never mentioned at trial. It was irrelevant and didn't apply. So forget about it, don't let it boil your blood, and don't let the media get you worked up over this. It's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the verdict. In fact, just read the earlier post below, and notice which of the facts were actually relevant. You'll see the ones I removed noted.

"Who:

• 
  George Zimmerman: - <Irrelevant Section Omitted> - <Irrelevant Section Omitted>
  - Spearheaded a Neighborhood Watch program after a string of burglaries.
  - Lives in a gated community in Sanford Florida.
  - Record of Assaulting a Police Officer

• 
  Trayvon Martin: - <Irrelevant Section Omitted>. - <Irrelevant Section Omitted>
  - Suspended from school for Vandalism
  - Participated in and refereed illegal MMA fights. <this is highly relevant to the level of defense needed in response.>
  - Lives in Miami Gardens, Visiting father's France's house in Zimmerman's neighborhood.

• 
  -Rachel Jeantel - Trayvon's Friend. Originally claimed to be his girlfriend. <deceit> -
  -Was on the phone with Trayvon during the moments leading up to the shooting. <untrustworthy testimony based on other lies previously told> -
  -Originally claimed to be 16. <deciet, can be used to show testimony is untrustworth> That's why she was not featured before the trial. She is actually 19. <Shows character trait of deciet.> -
  -Ms. Jeantel has offered a few variations of events. <lack of consistency in statements, shows possible deceit.>

Where:Sanford Florida. Gated community where Zimmerman lives as well as Tracy Martin's fiancé.

When:
February 26, 2012 between 7pm and 8pm. <Irrelevant Section Omitted>

What:
-Trayvon was visiting his fathers fiancé. <relevant only for establishing location, and destination>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>.
-Zimmerman notices Martin walking through people's yards. <relevant to show possible thread, as suspected burglars might be dangerous, and/or armed>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-Trayvon continues to walk through people'a yards. <continues to establish pattern of possible burglar, possibly dangerous.>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-<Irrelevant Section Omitted>
-Zimmerman heads back to his car. <THE MOST IMPORTANT UNDISPUTED PART OF THIS TRIAL. Shows lack of intent to harm Martin by Zimmerman, he gave up, and retreated.>
-Trayvon tells Jeantel that he lost Zimmerman and he is right outside his fathers finances house. <Also important. All Martin had to do was go inside the house. The end, no one gets hurt.>

*Up until this point Zimmerman's story and Jeantel's testimony match. Now the stories diverge.*

Zimmerman's Version:
- As he is walking back to his car Trayvon approaches him and asks, "You got a problem?!" <This shows Martin is the agressor, not Zimmerman.>
- Zimmerman says "No" - Trayvon says "You do now" <relevant for intent on the part of Martin to do harm to Zimmerman.>
- Trayvon attacks Zimmerman and smashes his head into the sidewalk.
- Zimmerman draws his weapon while Trayvon is on top and fires into his chest killing him.

Jeantel's Version: (From Trial) <Bear in mind that the witness has already been shown to lie about facts, herself, and her relationship to the Martin. Her entire testimony is untrustworthy, and might as well be discarded. Read what is below, but then ignore it, and realize you only have the undisputed facts above, and then the Zimmeran variance, which has factual support, and for all intents will be treated as fact, since there is nothing trustworthy to dispute it.>
- <Irrelevant Section Omitted>
- <Irrelevant Section Omitted>
- Jeantel hears Zimmerman say, "What you doing here?" <untrustworth, cannot be relied upon.>
- <Irrelevant Section Omitted>

Nothing else mattered. Look, it sounds horrible to say this, but you have to look at it without lives being involved. Like numbers or two bricks with conflicting stories.

The part where Zimmerman follows Martin. Doesn't matter. I can in any of the 50 US States and the United Kingdom (I'm working on my Solicitor's License there, we just covered this) I can get out of my car and follow you 2 inches away from you at any time, and as long as I have a right to be in that place, I can follow you anywhere. No joke. So Zimmerman getting out of the car and following? Irrelevant. If someone is following you, you call the cops. Or you go somewhere they can't follow you, like inside your father's fiance's house, or knock on a neighbors door and ask them to call the cops or let you in. That's all you have to do.

I can follow you and ask you all kinds of questions. You don't have to answer them unless I can identify myself as law enforcement, and provide proof of that. Even then, you don't have to answer any questions without legal representation present, as long as you make that wish known to the law enforcement official. Martin didn't want to answer any questions, great, walk inside the house, give him the finger and say "when you get a badge, you know where I'll be." Done, easy, and no one dies.


I'm going to ignore my usual disdain for NYSPRod, because he actually does bring up something important below

They went for manslaughter also, where jurors only needed to decide that Mr. Zimmerman put himself in a situation that culminated in Mr. Martin’s death. <See the Manslaughter definition above, remove everything that is irrelevant from the facts, and then you realize that manslaughter wasn't going to happen either. >

Surely, he did that. <No He didn't. Not by any legal standard.>

But because of Florida’s laws, prosecutors had to persuade jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense, <That's pretty much the law in every state, not just Florida.> which was impossible because there definitely was a fight between the two men, and Zimmerman had injuries. <Again no, because there are levels of defense that you may use.>

Here's the part that is going to mess with your head. Under the law, if you pick a fight with Mike Tyson, first, you're a really stupid person. But also, you are going to get your ass handed to you. Even if you pick the fight, deliver the first blow, if you are getting creamed by Tyson, you are allowed the right under the law to retreat. Yeah, you'll be suffering in a hospital, and have permanent injuries, but you'll live to tell the tale. Assault? Probably not, because in most jurisdictions, when Tyson joins in, you both have consented to fight. If Tyson won't let you retreat, run away to mommy and lick your wounds like the pussy you are, then he's on the hook for assault. Because you are no longer of consent.

So, Martin and Zimmerman. It doesn't matter who threw the first punch. At this point, they are fighting. Martin could have ran, could have stayed and took a beating, and Zimmerman would have a second assault charge and probably conviction. But he didn't. Martin fought back. Consent given, it's go time, and Zimmerman is going to get the beatdown of his pudgy little lifetime.

But wait.

When Zimmerman is on his back, on the ground, there is no ability to retreat. Consent to fight is no longer possible, as the ability to retreat is gone. Martin by being on top of him and pressing him to the ground is at this point, converted under the law, to the agressor and committing assault. At this point, since Zimmerman lacks the capacity to consent to the fight, and is helpless in his current state, he has options at law for defense.

Is there something nearby he can use as a weapon, other than the gun? No. There is some debate as to whether Martin was going for the weapon. If true, Zimmerman is now looking at being on the wrong end of deadly force being used against him with his own weapon. He is absolutely entitled to use "Like Force" meaning he can use deadly force for his own defense.

Ok, let's say Martin didn't go for the weapon at Zimmerman's hip. Instead, he's still getting beaten, and the only thing that happens is he reaches for the gun. That beadown is still happening, he is still only using the force necessary, to preserve his safety by pulling, and pointing the weapon.

The Outcome:
Murder? There was no intent provable. Zimmerman was walking back to his car. Nothing was ever shown that he systematically planned to follow and shoot him, and there was nothing ever shown that proved Zimmerman had intent to shoot him before the fight broke out, and the need for defense was presented.

Manslaughter: Negligence wasn't at issue, and isn't part of the Florida Law. Only Constructive Manslaughter applied in this matter, and Zimmerman had not committed a misdemeanor (or felony for that matter) at the time the gun was drawn.


So regardless of what you think of the outcome, the truth is that the Court, the Jury, and the legal system worked exactly as it should, and this is the correct outcome, despite the tragic and senseless loss of life that could have been prevented had two cooler heads prevailed, and things didn't spiral out of control.

I feel for Martin's parents, and am sorry for their loss. But again, the system worked as it should.

[bluesoul]

If people in the media would let things be and race hustlers like Jesse and Al would have left it alone, this case would have never went to trial. It doesn't help when Obama sticks his nose in things and the justice dept. sends people in to help gin up racial unrest.

well, the naacp have a petition to have the department of justice launch a civil rights investigation on the case- so it's not over yet

[TSPornFan]

Zimmerman should had been guilty of manslaughter.

Zimmerman's story doesn't make sense. Zimmerman is much bigger than Martin. Zimmerman is over 100 pounds bigger than Martin. He was the stronger person so I highly doubt Martin was able to put Zimmerman on the ground.

Secondly, there is no way that Zimmerman's head was banged into concrete. His head injuries would had been much worse. His injuries were pretty minor. None of his injuries were life threating.

Thirdly, let's look at Martin's point of view. There is a stranger following him. He is a young teenage who used common sense and tried to run away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman ran after Martin. Again let's look at this from Martin's point of view. What would a teenage think when a stranger is following and running after them? He clearly thought he was in danger.

Look at the facts.
http://thegrio.com/2012/03/19/trayvo...nford-florida/

[bluesoul]

Thirdly, let's look at Martin's point of view. There is a stranger following him.

you've got it wrong. zimmerman wasn't following him. he was sitting in his car, noticed martin- martin noticed him, walked around then ran. zimmerman ran after him- was told not to do that, said "okay, i'll go back to the front and wait for the cops and tell them where he ran to" hang up and ran into martin.

[fred41]

WOO HOO! About to put the law degree to some use.

Hi JPH, could you post this in the other thread also. Wish you had posted this in that thread awhile ago...lol. You will notice that you'd be one of the very few people with a criminal law degree that post in the political section.

This is an emotional case...you will find that some people won't argue the actual definition of the law with you...they will argue according to what they think the law should be....or believe it is. They don't realize that most of them would never have been picked as jurors in this case because of their preconceived notions.
Good luck in your career counselor. BTW...are you a practicing criminal lawyer?

[TSPornFan]

you've got it wrong. zimmerman wasn't following him. he was sitting in his car, noticed martin- martin noticed him, walked around then ran. zimmerman ran after him- was told not to do that, said "okay, i'll go back to the front and wait for the cops and tell them where he ran to" hang up and ran into martin.

You've contracted yourself in the bold print.

Zimmerman was following him. He was following Martin by driving in his SUV. Martin noticed this and eventually ran when Zimmerman continued to follow him in the SUV. Zimmerman continues following Martin by running after Martin.

[danthepoetman]

I just fell on this one...