Teds Place?

[jennylicious]

Don't sweat it Tosser.... (That name invites rude remarks)

CD = cross dresser
TV = transvestite (similar to cross dresser but tries harder - and usually shaves etc which a CD often doesn't)
TS - well that's someone on the spectrum of a journey from a male body to a female (with a female persona embodied all the way)

You'll meet all three at Teds, the Way out and Stunners (though the latter is a place to go have sex primarily - pretty hardcore)

Straight into that minefield you go.

Cross dresser has been adopted in recent times to encompass every time of cross-gender dressing. It's supposed to be a more politically correct term than transvestite, but since in the UK a cross dresser was often used to describe men who do little more than wear their wife's knickers to masturbate in. Although the American term is becoming more standardly adopted, it's best to avoid it.

Transvestite is another example of the most stupid of terms. It's based on an understanding of sex from about 1930, and while it's been known since the late 80s that Gender dysphoria was a common cause of transvestism, and as far as I'm aware, it's more prevalent than someone dressing out of fetishism, it is still the antiquated belief of many. Many "transvestites" have their own long hair. Some take hormones. Some have facial surgery. Some have breast augmentation. It's a complex condition.

So while TS has a very specific application, the terms used alongside it are all encompassing terms without any framed meaning. Either CD or TV could be taken offensively.

Not that it can't be used in the board, but if you're addressing someone in one of these clubs, it's best to wait to hear how they describe themselves.

[Prospero]

Thanks Jenny. I stand corrected. I'd always assumed that TS girls were the "real Mcoy" (albeit a wide spectrum in itself) and that TV was an equally wide spectrum stopping short of transexuality (though I guess many older TVs may not be able to exercise the options a younger girl can - and thus may well be transexual but labelled as TV).

CD in popular parlance generally means a guy who likes to cross dress - and may be gay or may be heterosexual. The main thrill or motivation being the donning of female clothes. I had no idea there was any political dimension to it. Of course the tabloid press will call any human who still has their original sexual organs a cross dresser if they don the garb of the opposite gender. But that isn't what you are discussing, is it?)

In British theatre - y Shakespeare is the most classic example - crossdressing has long played a huge role. Men took all parts for centuries before women were allowed to appear on stage. It's also long been a key component of British comedy as well - Dick Emery and Monty Python, for instance, both featuring cross dressing for comedic effect.

They may be stupid terms but they re used all the time - here and in the wider world.

Perhaps in terms of a sense of identity the only people who should be allowed to label themselves are the individuals involved?

But then I do know it is a minefield. Thanks for reminding me.

[jennylicious]

GD is just very complicated. Many people with it are not recommended for gender reassignment. Without wanting to lessen their experience, is it fair to label them with people who have a fetish?

The ICD 10 was enlightened enough identify two types of transvestism, with one being a gender issue and the other being a fetish. The DSM has a number of Gender dysphoria categories outside of Transsexual.

There really is still quite a lot of ignorance on the subject of transvestites in the Medical community, with no genuine desire or perceived need to research further. There is certainly no breakthrough soon, as the ICD 11 is planning on simplifying their diagnosis to be similar to the DSM.

Not to say it doesn't need sorting out. One of the DSM entries, it has been suggested, was added in the early 80s as a political reaction to removing homosexuality from the DSM in the 70s.

Of course, that's not the biggest issue I can see in the transgender world. If the changes they are proposing are made, there is going to be real problem for transsexuals. The suggestion to remove GD from the Diagnostic criteria altogether will ultimately lead to problems with diagnosis, and therefore, probably medical insurance. The suggestion made by people contributing being "Well if that process is messed up, then they will have to sort it out, it shouldn't affect us".

I have to say, if it happens, I'm worried it will be the transsexuals themselves that have to "sort it out".

In short, transgenderism isn't just complicated, the medical community are so far away from understanding what to make of it all, that it's best to accept every member is an individual.

(It's not such a bad philosophy for anyone...)

[Prospero]

....it's best to accept every member is an individual.

(It's not such a bad philosophy for anyone...)

A pretty good starting point in relating to anyone actually

[Tosser]

What about the term "shemale"
Is that considered OK?

[carl essex]

if u call a shemale a shamale in london u may get a slap. it usually refers to the porn side of things imo

[Jericho]

What about the term "shemale"
Is that considered OK?

No matter who/what they look like, if someone's presenting as female, address them as such...And you can't go wrong!

[Jericho]

Unless they're fucknuts crazy...But that's only 90%, so......

[kuteguy]

been in the scene for a decade in London. meaning to check out ted's forever. finally went this thursday and was sorely disappointed. hardly any attractive transsexuals. whoever was there was more interested in servicing men in the toilets for money. lots of guys .. was told by some of them that it is usually better but it's unusually quiet ( weather was great so no excuses there) :-$

[Females+Shemales]

The best part about Ted's place was that Sam Jones was there!