We're Not Gay And We're Not Straight

[btmmale4toptg]

Yup!

[Castor_Troy05]

To quote one of my favourite movies

The world is changing, music is changing, drugs are changing, even men and women are changing. One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just wankers. Sounds great to me

You see, if you ask me, we're heterosexual by default, not be decision. It's just a question of who you fancy.

It's all about aesthetics and it's fuck all to do with morality

[bluesoul]

To quote one of my favourite movies

used to have a major crush on kelly mcdonald

[Castor_Troy05]

Ah yes Kelly McDonald, met her and her husband once at a music festival, she's stunning in real life too

[rockabilly]

We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars.

[finultimo]

Yup!

never say better

[trish]

I wasn't getting enough thumbs down votes, so I thought I'd post something on this thread.

Imagine a man and a woman find that they are attracted to each other. In the course of the developing relationship the woman reveals (as timely as possible, but it is always a difficult moment to face) that she is currently a pre-op transexual). Surprised at first, perhaps feeling betrayed, the man shortly decides that in spite of her physiology, he can accept her for the women she is. The relationship continues. Perhaps they even (after many discussions and adventures together) they decide to get married. Is this man a heterosexual? Of course. Is she? Of course. At least there’s is nothing revealed in the story that would lead one to say otherwise.

Now imagine the same story, except the woman being trans is a deal-braker. Are they both still heterosexuals? Yes, of course. But it’s a sad story. Perhaps he wants to have children by the women he eventually marries. Perhaps he just can’t bear the fact that she’s transgender. That can happen even if she is post-op. Sad. But understandable.

Now imagine the same story, but this time all along the man thought he clocked the woman of his attractions right away as a transsexual. But he’s wrong. When he discovers she’s not, it’s a deal-braker. First of all, this story is just as sad as prior story; and certainly less understandable. Second, let’s once again ask the question, “Is he a heterosexual?” Ans: Maybe, maybe not. If he is, he is a heterosexual with a fetish.

Now there’s nothing wrong with fetishes. They are the spice of life. It is quite all right to occassionally act out fantasies and even objectify your lover, or some aspect of him or her. One key word here is “occassionally.” Some of us girls make or have made a substantive living of having healthy fun with male libidos. I know a lot of heterosexual men who enjoy spending an evening fondling a tgirl’s cock. It’s a fetish that some men enjoy and others find repulsive, like drinking a woman’s piss or licking the soles of her shoes.

But (imo) if you let your fetish take a permanent hold on your psyche, so that its presence or absence becomes a deal-braker obstructing the formation of natural healthy relationships, then needless to say, that kind of fetish is not so healthy. I’m wary of anyone who tells me they date transgender women exclusively and that it’s prejudicial to criticize them because being attracted exclusively to transgender women is like being gay and attracted exclusively to men. I disagree. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a sexual orientation. Attraction exclusively to transgender women is not.

One contrary argument is that gender is a continuum. Not every man is either straight or gay. There are shades of in between and exclusive attraction to transgender women is somewhere in the in between.

There are a lot of things to criticize in this argument. 1) Sexual orientation is not gender identification. 2) Being a transgender person doesn’t entail that you’re somewhere in between male and female on the gender continuum. 3) Exclusive attraction to transsexual women is not a sexual orientation nor a gender identity; if male is attracted to a transsexual woman (for the right reasons), then he is attracted to a woman and is therefore a heteosexual, not something between hetero and homo. I can already hear someone object to the parenthetical proviso “for the right reasons.” That is addressed by 4) transgender is not a sexual orientation. Transgender is something a person sometimes becomes to reconcile a tragic mismatch between their physiologic gender and their percieved gender. It is not a sexual orientation. Now to address the topic of right reasons. The “right reasons” are the reasons that prevail as right in any sort of healthy relationship. Gay men seek gay men. Heterosexual men seek heterosexual women and vice-versa. Not being the appropriate sexual orientation can be a legitimate deal-braker (an appropriate and right reason for ending the romantic part of the relationship). But transgender is not a sexual orientation. So being or not being transgender is not by itself a legitimate deal-braker. Anyone for whom being transgender or not is a deal-braker, is sadly a person in the unhealthy grip of a powerful fetish.

[bluesoul]

the first and second scenario remind me of any typical jerry springer episode- where the guy supposedly had "no idea".

the third scenario is the typical hungangels chaser scenario- where they're aggressively seeking out a t-girlfriend for a "serious" relationship that doesn't involve "donations"

[trish]

the first and second scenario remind me of any typical jerry springer episode- where the guy supposedly had "no idea".

the third scenario is the typical hungangels chaser scenario- where they're aggressively seeking out a t-girlfriend for a "serious" relationship that doesn't involve "donations"

Yeah, I agree the scenarios are pretty lame. I made them up to introduce the idea of using a "deal-braker" as a kind of test to decide whether one's fetish has gotten out of hand. You can use it for any kind of fetish. Big humongous tits, for example...a rather common fetish. A lot of men would consider it a bonus if they married someone with humongous fun bags...and that's just fine...it IS a bonus. But if having or not having humongous fun bags is a deal-braker, then the fetish has gotten out of hand and is likely ruining your life and will ultimately make your partner miserable.

[hiten369]

On your 1st point, you are right, sexual orientation is not gender identification.

2.I don't think anyone, that uses the continuum argument, has suggested that a transgendered person is somewhere in between male and female. A transgendered person is a combination, like all of us, of sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, romantic orientation, and sexual behavior.

3. You are also right that being exclusively attracted to a transsexual person is not a sexual orientation nor a gender identity. As I stated above, there are many different factors. Although, IMO, I don't think someone would be exclusively attracted to a transsexual person. But I disagree with your argument that if male is attracted to a transsexual woman then therefore a heterosexual. Now does that mean he is automatically in between hetro and homo? Not necessarily but he could be. Adding fetish into this argument seems a bit unnecessary and doesn't make a lot of sense because fetishes are sexual/intimate activities that can be performed solo, with 2 people or with a group of people.

*on a side note: it seems more likely that wanting to have sex with a transgendered person is not a fetish but is most likely the result of a persons sexual behavior and/or romantic orientation. And I say this because wanting to have sex, of any kind, is not a fetish it is human nature. If a guy wants to have sex with a girl, can we really call that a fetish? If a guy wants to have anal sex with a girl then I would call that a fetish.
*

And finally, I'll use myself as an example.
Sex: Male
Gender Identity: Man
Sexual Orientation: mostly straight, but gay on a very small level, or partially bi.
Romantic Orientation: woman (non-transgendered)
Sexual Behavior: I could say none because I haven't had sex or I could simply put masturbation. And I want to have sex with a woman and a transsexual woman.

For me none of these factors are set in stone so they could change.