Christianity cured his homosexual tendencies...

[fivekatz]

Nothing wrong with the ideas and intent behind religion, only how people manipulate it.

Nothing wrong with the ideas and intent behind government, only how people manipulate it.

Trends of thought and belief in and of themselves are healthy, it is how some people manipulate and attempt to force those beliefs and ideals on others to gain whatever sort of power they maybe looking for it, be it monetary, emotional or spiritual.

Nothing personal to the what I am sure are the many Christians here but many of the most un-Christ like acts in history of humanity have been done in name of Christ.

I don't know if there is a God but if there is she/he loves all her children regardless of their sexual orientation and in fact there is judgment it would be on charity of heart not judgment of the differences between humans.

Maybe this poor soul who was cured of his homosexuality by Christianity can have his humanity restored by Christ?

[scroller]

Nothing wrong with the ideas and intent behind religion, only how people manipulate it.

Aside from it being false, ridiculous, mean-spirited, and supportive of living life in a delusional state.

[StinkyPete1000]

SP1000, I don't feel you have disrespected me at all. You are simply stating your truth, (or is it Truth?) My major point is, that you have to look at something according to it's definition, not just what you see, or what you define it as. I want to use your example of Karate. The majority might see it as what Bruce Lee used in his movies, a fighting technique. But a Karate Master, would see fighting techniques as just part of a larger discipline. This larger discipline, would include relaxation, breathing techniques, and posture in daily activities, both to conserve energy, and to keep ones body in a higher state of readiness. Also important in Karate, would be a mental state, which would include knowledge of when certain force is necessary. So a Karate Master might define all movement, and mental states as Karate. A master watching television, could also be practicing posture and breathing as well. I admit, I personally dont have a master knowledge of Karate, by I can now intuitively understand, based upon my experience in other disciplines, including Judo, and Tai Chi. I would say that Karate is not God, but a discipline system, which brings one closer to God. That is by giving one a 'higher state of being', than you would have without it. That higher state could include, better health, confidence, and even general happiness, as well as many other benefits. In the Bible they have been called "fruits of the spirit". But one could possibly be a world champion Karate fighter, and not have the 'fruits'. Chuck Norris doesn't have it, in my humble opinion.

I must make an aside, and say that many, maybe even the majority people that believe in the Bible, think that one can only get those 'fruits' by following Jesus, and the Bible in general. Then some of them turn around and have attitudes of condemnation towards others, that say they don't believe. They are missing essential parts of the teachings of Jesus. To people like yourself, their behavior seems illogical. The truth is that it is, in their case. They are missing a greater Truth. I think it was Jesus, that said, 'you can judge a tree by it's fruits. Religion is more analogous to the roots, rather than the fruits.

Truth is the ultimate reality of what is, in the universe, all the way down to what is reality in our everyday existence. But keep in mind that reality goes a lot deeper than everyday observations. Science and logic are tools to find a greater truths. Science then should bring us closer, to whatever God is. A person who believes that the earth is 6000 years old is missing the essence of what is God. I think I know what truth is. But that does not mean, I necessarily know Truth better than you. I might get to the Truth, after a long journey, and find StinkyPete already there, sipping on a pina colada! Perhaps you might discover a more efficient way to get coconut milk. Thus I should always try and be respectful. Thanks for this discussion. I did not have the time to get to some of your other points. Perhaps later I will.

Hey Yoda, glad I didn't offend. I appreciate this conversation a lot. You're a good guy in my book.

I just have a few thoughts. My karate example was not meant to show that people may define things differently. I understand that concept. My point was, when you start saying God is truth, knowledge, love, etc. the definition becomes so broad that God can literally be anything and everything. The result is that believers feel justified in arguing that God exists because they can place him anywhere and in anything. It's false logic in my opinion. Here's an example: God is truth, I believe in truth, therefore God must exist. There is no logical link between the two. That is simply not proof of God's existence.

Also, again, much of what you said presupposes the existence of God. Why try to find out how long one of his days is when we can't establish that he exists? How can you say that certain things will bring people closer to Jesus when his existence has also yet to be proven? You can believe that science will bring us closer to God, but, again, that assumes God exists. On a side note, science has brought us farther away from God in my opinion and I'm quite happy it has.

So I guess my overall response is that your "what is God" arguments are premature. Those are arguments that you can have once you've proven his existence. Until then, the question is does God exist at all and, based on the evidence ( or lack thereof), logic tells me he/she does not.

[yodajazz]

Hey Yoda, glad I didn't offend. I appreciate this conversation a lot. You're a good guy in my book.

I just have a few thoughts. My karate example was not meant to show that people may define things differently. I understand that concept. My point was, when you start saying God is truth, knowledge, love, etc. the definition becomes so broad that God can literally be anything and everything. The result is that believers feel justified in arguing that God exists because they can place him anywhere and in anything. It's false logic in my opinion. Here's an example: God is truth, I believe in truth, therefore God must exist. There is no logical link between the two. That is simply not proof of God's existence.

Also, again, much of what you said presupposes the existence of God. Why try to find out how long one of his days is when we can't establish that he exists? How can you say that certain things will bring people closer to Jesus when his existence has also yet to be proven? You can believe that science will bring us closer to God, but, again, that assumes God exists. On a side note, science has brought us farther away from God in my opinion and I'm quite happy it has.

So I guess my overall response is that your "what is God" arguments are premature. Those are arguments that you can have once you've proven his existence. Until then, the question is does God exist at all and, based on the evidence ( or lack thereof), logic tells me he/she does not.

According to my believe system, God is those major concept/principles, as well as more. Science has prove the existence of things we cannot see, or hear. Atomic and sub-atomic particles are examples of this. In many cases, their existence is proven by certain effects, not by direct observation. So this would be the case with God. And I argue that the effects are more important, than proving the existence of God. I have used as example, 'cosmic' events. But we haven't gotten to human events. Basic religions say , there are laws and consequences for human behavior beyond the directly observable ones. Heaven and hell are defined a places where people reside, as consequences for their behaviors. But those are theoretical places, as some believe and some don't. So it still goes back to how we each live our lives and the principles that guide us. Many believe, that you have to specifically believe certain things about Jesus, such as his resurrection from the dead, and that's all you need. But that's not what Jesus himself said, according to what I understand. He said we needed to do certain things. I would summarize them to say; 'giving towards life'. When we love, with give for the sake of giving, not for any expected direct reward. If we serve Truth, then we do it for the sake of achieving a greater truth, etc. Sometimes we do expect rewards, but the reward should not be the most important thing, or its not really giving.

The rules for living from God, according to religions, also include prohibiting certain negative behaviors towards others. So just for an exercise; lets say someone come to you with a guaranteed plan that you could, get say one million dollars from some account, with no violence. Perhaps just some direct account access stuff. Would you do it? Why or why not? This is not a set up, to attack you. It's just a discussion about values of living, many of which people believe are from 'God".

Lest you think that this is only about Christianity lets look for a second at Islam. In Islam there is a concept called the 99 names of God (who they call Allah). I most cases they translate into more than one word, but many could be converted to a saying, like "God is Peace". My personal history comes from being a member of a 'New Thought" sub-movement which tries to find common elements among different religions. "The Truth" is one of the 99 names.

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

This led me to check which wars are considered to be religious wars. According to the Encyclopedia of War it is a mere 7%

Funny thing is...the people who win those wars are the ones who write/edit the history books.

[Tayla]

Christian cured his homosexual tendencies...

[iagodelgado]

Funny thing is...the people who win those wars are the ones who write/edit the history books.

You've won most of the wars you have gone into.

You've written the most shit that has been written.

The people who get to write the shit are the people who get to write the shit.

Whether or nor not it cured his ...........

[gaysian71]

nothing cures homosexuality period

[fivekatz]

nothing cures homosexuality period

The very idea that the Christian right in the US speaks of the idea of homosexuality being a curable condition says everything you need to know about these people, who would have rejected Jesus for being a Jew with long hair and beard who embraced a prostitute and spoke against the conventions of the day.

IMHO 21st Century US Christianity is curable by simply getting those people to follow the teachings of Christ rather than trying to revise them to fit twisted political agendas.