Christianity cured his homosexual tendencies...

[StinkyPete1000]

The problem I see with people that claim not to believe in God, is that their (and your) concept of God is too limited. God is a philosophical concept that has countless definitions, among numerous cultures. Let's look at one example: One statement in the Bible says that, "God is Truth". Maybe you cant conceive of a 'god', but you claim to believe Truth. I believe in God, ok. But for the sake of argument, let's say I believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. Does that mean, God is not truth, or is really that I don't understand what truth is, related to the earth's creation? Some define God as infinite knowledge, the common consensus is that 'God' has a knowledge beyond man's knowledge. You can't deny that there is knowledge beyond man's current understanding. And speaking of understanding, perhaps both you and I don't fully understand what is considered to be "the word of God". Let's stick to the topic of the earth's creation. The Bible claims the earth was created in "six days". But who are we to know that it was six earth days? There was not even an earth on the first day, according to the Biblical version of creation. And God is defined as creating stars, etc. So who are we to say God's 'day' is the same as an earth day, since we know that earth is only a small part of the universe? Anyway, many parts of the Bible can be taken as allegory. Scientific theories believe that the earth was formed, from part of the sun, and that there were different periods, same as what the Bible story claims. (days in the Bible, could equal what science refers to as 'ages'). Theories say that man was a more recent 'creation' than other species. That aligns with the Biblical order of creation also.

Lastly, I will say at the very least, God is a personification of Law. What you most likely don't believe, is the 'personification' part. But you have already admitted to believe in Law, as defined by scientific proof. So you too believe in Law(s), and many (most) philosophical concepts that others define as God. What about love, or I should say, Love?

This entire post seems somewhat nonsensical.

First, the post appears to be an attempt to broaden the definition of God to such an extent that literally anything can be considered God. I believe in karate, could there be a karate god? The more you need to broaden the definition the more apparent it is that it's becoming increasingly harder to justify the belief as we get smarter. To use your example, some people say God is truth. What, exactly, does that even mean? I doubt even you can explain that concept. It reminds me of the scene in Anchorman when Brick says he loves lamp and then proceeds to say he loves various objects in the room. He has a rudimentary understanding of the word love so he just says he loves whatever he sees. In your case, people "understand" that their understanding of God as a spirit is harder to justify, so instead you hear pseudo-philosophical lines like "god is love" and "god is truth."

I'm also not sure how the fact that there is myriad information that remains undiscovered by humanity has anything to do with the existence of god. It's been my experience that, the more we learn, the less important god becomes (once we discovered germs we no longer believed that god made bad people sick).

The rest of your post presupposes the existence of god, which is the very thing being argued in this thread. Who's to say how long "god's day" is? That question, while unrelated to the topic, presupposes gods existence. If his existence remains unproven I have no need (or desire) to waste time trying to determine the length of one of his days. Furthermore, you concede that much of the bible is allegory, so why give it any credence at all? Call me crazy but I find it quite hard to believe that the creation story is an allegory for the Big Bang.

[iagodelgado]

No being a Gooner is not illogical ,just a bit stupid

True.

[iagodelgado]

This entire post seems somewhat nonsensical.

First, the post appears to be an attempt to broaden the definition of God to such an extent that literally anything can be considered God. I believe in karate, could there be a karate god? The more you need to broaden the definition the more apparent it is that it's becoming increasingly harder to justify the belief as we get smarter. To use your example, some people say God is truth. What, exactly, does that even mean? I doubt even you can explain that concept. It reminds me of the scene in Anchorman when Brick says he loves lamp and then proceeds to say he loves various objects in the room. He has a rudimentary understanding of the word love so he just says he loves whatever he sees. In your case, people "understand" that their understanding of God as a spirit is harder to justify, so instead you hear pseudo-philosophical lines like "god is love" and "god is truth."

I'm also not sure how the fact that there is myriad information that remains undiscovered by humanity has anything to do with the existence of god. It's been my experience that, the more we learn, the less important god becomes (once we discovered germs we no longer believed that god made bad people sick).

The rest of your post presupposes the existence of god, which is the very thing being argued in this thread. Who's to say how long "god's day" is? That question, while unrelated to the topic, presupposes gods existence. If his existence remains unproven I have no need (or desire) to waste time trying to determine the length of one of his days. Furthermore, you concede that much of the bible is allegory, so why give it any credence at all? Call me crazy but I find it quite hard to believe that the creation story is an allegory for the Big Bang.

The logic side of me gets Yoda's post easily and in its entirety.

I don't believe in God. I can't prove by logic that God (whether Yoda's or otherwise) exists or does not exist.

I can only believe. Or not.

[StinkyPete1000]

The logic side of me gets Yoda's post easily and in its entirety.

I don't believe in God. I can't prove by logic that God (whether Yoda's or otherwise) exists or does not exist.

I can only believe. Or not.

Why don't you explain it then? His point was that my definition of god was limited. So, what version of god do you not believe in? You say you don't believe in god (and apparently the logic side of you got yoda's point) so my question for you is which god dont you believe in? The god that is truth, knowledge, love? All of the above?

I agree you can believe or not. That was never in dispute. You can believe what you want. Just like I believe the issue was whether or not said belief was based on logic. My position is that it is not. The logic side of me says that if you broaden the definition of god then god can literally be anything. He or she can be truth, knowledge, love, justice--whatever you want. Unfortunately, that answer does not speak to the question of whether the belief is logical.

So again, perhaps I missed something in Yoda's post. That's why I'm asking you to fill me in since you got it easily (although you failed to explain what you understood). Enlighten me.

[iagodelgado]

Yoda believes in his beliefs.

I believe in science. That's logic and rationale.

Holy shit, that's big bang, which works ..... er, um, er.

That's superstring theory. With 9 parallel universes. Oh shit, is it 12?

That's Higgs-Boson. Assuming we ever find the bastard.

And a mere 100 years from now my scientific theories are going to look as childish as the Book of Genesis.

I still don't believe. Yoda does, so RESPECT.

PS I still support Arsenal.

[RallyCola]

if i had a choice to shut off the rational, logical and level headed part of my personality, i'd believe in yoda more than a god. yoda rulez

[StinkyPete1000]

Yoda believes in his beliefs.

I believe in science. That's logic and rationale.

Holy shit, that's big bang, which works ..... er, um, er.

That's superstring theory. With 9 parallel universes. Oh shit, is it 12?

That's Higgs-Boson. Assuming we ever find the bastard.

And a mere 100 years from now my scientific theories are going to look as childish as the Book of Genesis.

I still don't believe. Yoda does, so RESPECT.

PS I still support Arsenal.

I didn't think I disrespected Yoda. And if I did I'd hope he'd tell me himself. I didn't take a swipe at believers (for example, I don't question their intelligence). Last time I checked this was a couple adults having a discussion (an interesting one I might add).

Other than that, I'm not sure "Holy shit, that's big bang, which works ..... er, um, er" brings anything to the table. But I did like your statement that 100 years from now "your" scientific theories will seem childish. As we advance, what were once widely held theories (in the scientific sense of the word) seem outdated. That's a great point and I think it's entirely applicable to this discussion because that is what's happening to belief in God to a certain extent. Holes in our existence that were once filled by God have now been filled by science. Dare I say that at some point in the future there may be no more room for God.

Either way, I respect Yoda's beliefs (I respect Yoda). But we are having a conversation and I merely pointed out the portions of his statement that I found troubling. If my conclusions are incorrect I invite either one of you to point me in the right direction. But, I have to apologize--"
That's superstring theory. With 9 parallel universes. Oh shit, is it 12?" isn't going to cut it for me...

[yodajazz]

I didn't think I disrespected Yoda. And if I did I'd hope he'd tell me himself. I didn't take a swipe at believers (for example, I don't question their intelligence). Last time I checked this was a couple adults having a discussion (an interesting one I might add).

Other than that, I'm not sure "Holy shit, that's big bang, which works ..... er, um, er" brings anything to the table. But I did like your statement that 100 years from now "your" scientific theories will seem childish. As we advance, what were once widely held theories (in the scientific sense of the word) seem outdated. That's a great point and I think it's entirely applicable to this discussion because that is what's happening to belief in God to a certain extent. Holes in our existence that were once filled by God have now been filled by science. Dare I say that at some point in the future there may be no more room for God.

Either way, I respect Yoda's beliefs (I respect Yoda). But we are having a conversation and I merely pointed out the portions of his statement that I found troubling. If my conclusions are incorrect I invite either one of you to point me in the right direction. But, I have to apologize--"
That's superstring theory. With 9 parallel universes. Oh shit, is it 12?" isn't going to cut it for me...

SP1000, I don't feel you have disrespected me at all. You are simply stating your truth, (or is it Truth?) My major point is, that you have to look at something according to it's definition, not just what you see, or what you define it as. I want to use your example of Karate. The majority might see it as what Bruce Lee used in his movies, a fighting technique. But a Karate Master, would see fighting techniques as just part of a larger discipline. This larger discipline, would include relaxation, breathing techniques, and posture in daily activities, both to conserve energy, and to keep ones body in a higher state of readiness. Also important in Karate, would be a mental state, which would include knowledge of when certain force is necessary. So a Karate Master might define all movement, and mental states as Karate. A master watching television, could also be practicing posture and breathing as well. I admit, I personally dont have a master knowledge of Karate, by I can now intuitively understand, based upon my experience in other disciplines, including Judo, and Tai Chi. I would say that Karate is not God, but a discipline system, which brings one closer to God. That is by giving one a 'higher state of being', than you would have without it. That higher state could include, better health, confidence, and even general happiness, as well as many other benefits. In the Bible they have been called "fruits of the spirit". But one could possibly be a world champion Karate fighter, and not have the 'fruits'. Chuck Norris doesn't have it, in my humble opinion.

I must make an aside, and say that many, maybe even the majority people that believe in the Bible, think that one can only get those 'fruits' by following Jesus, and the Bible in general. Then some of them turn around and have attitudes of condemnation towards others, that say they don't believe. They are missing essential parts of the teachings of Jesus. To people like yourself, their behavior seems illogical. The truth is that it is, in their case. They are missing a greater Truth. I think it was Jesus, that said, 'you can judge a tree by it's fruits. Religion is more analogous to the roots, rather than the fruits.

Truth is the ultimate reality of what is, in the universe, all the way down to what is reality in our everyday existence. But keep in mind that reality goes a lot deeper than everyday observations. Science and logic are tools to find a greater truths. Science then should bring us closer, to whatever God is. A person who believes that the earth is 6000 years old is missing the essence of what is God. I think I know what truth is. But that does not mean, I necessarily know Truth better than you. I might get to the Truth, after a long journey, and find StinkyPete already there, sipping on a pina colada! Perhaps you might discover a more efficient way to get coconut milk. Thus I should always try and be respectful. Thanks for this discussion. I did not have the time to get to some of your other points. Perhaps later I will.

[Molly D'Vyne]

That's Higgs-Boson. Assuming we ever find the bastard.

Assuming they ever just accept that we've found the bastard. Five sigma is pretty damn significant... assuming some asshat didn't leave a cable partially plugged into a sensor somewhere, you'd really think we have solid evidence that it exists now.

[iagodelgado]

I think we got unplugged a while a go. Reality dissolved. Sorry!