Christianity cured his homosexual tendencies...

[iagodelgado]

that's 8% too much. if you believe in divinity, you should understand that war and murder in the name of a god is wrong. you should be confident in yourself and your faith to know that you are right and everyone else is damned so there is no need to fight over it.

also, that 7% figure is alarmingly low because there are always theo-political undertones to many more wars than may be recognized by that particular source.

Undertones - yes. Main reason - no.

How many wars has the US fought? How many were religious?

(PS Multiple sources come to the same conclusion.)

[StinkyPete1000]

Who cares how many wars were the product of religious belief?

How many people have been killed in the name of religion (war or not)?
How many people have been harmed in the name of religion?
How many people have been ridiculed in the name of religion?
How many people have been abandoned because of religion?

The point is, the 7% number is meaningless. Belief in God (and the ridiculous rules that come along with it) has harmed many (war or no war).

The worst of the harm is inflicted on people's intellect. Should you be proud that you're happy believing in a being who's existence has not been proven? Should you be proud that you're happy believing in a being that requires you to shun logic?

[iagodelgado]

There's an awful lot of intellectuals who are believers.

There's an awful lot of people who have been killed for nothing to do with religion. WW1, WW2, ....

Logic v belief. Different things.

[StinkyPete1000]

There are a lot of intellectuals who are believers. I know. However their relief requires them to shun logic (which is the opposite of being an intellectual).

That's the point I'm making. Being a logical human being but still believing in God seems somewhat hypocritical. As an intellectual, one seeks truth, but truth through evidence, truth through facts, research, logic, science even philosophy. Yet, when it comes to the belief in a higher power some set logic aside and rely on faith. That is what I did strange.

Pointing out that people have been killed for non-religious reasons has absolutely no bearing on my point. Just like pointing out that people get killed by knives has no bearing on the argument that guns are harmful). Sure people get killed for non-religious reasons but that doesn't mean that they DON'T get killed for religious reasons also.

Belief and logic are NOT mutually exclusive. I believe that the Earth orbits the Sun because years of scientific research tells me so. I believe that what goes up must come down because science tells me so. I BELIEVE a lot of things because they have supporting EVIDENCE. So, no, logic and belief are not completely different. I BELIEVE certain things BECAUSE they are logical. Some people, however, believe in God without the requisite proof/logic. That is what troubles me.

[yodajazz]

There are a lot of intellectuals who are believers. I know. However their relief requires them to shun logic (which is the opposite of being an intellectual).

That's the point I'm making. Being a logical human being but still believing in God seems somewhat hypocritical. As an intellectual, one seeks truth, but truth through evidence, truth through facts, research, logic, science even philosophy. Yet, when it comes to the belief in a higher power some set logic aside and rely on faith. That is what I did strange.

Pointing out that people have been killed for non-religious reasons has absolutely no bearing on my point. Just like pointing out that people get killed by knives has no bearing on the argument that guns are harmful). Sure people get killed for non-religious reasons but that doesn't mean that they DON'T get killed for religious reasons also.

Belief and logic are NOT mutually exclusive. I believe that the Earth orbits the Sun because years of scientific research tells me so. I believe that what goes up must come down because science tells me so. I BELIEVE a lot of things because they have supporting EVIDENCE. So, no, logic and belief are not completely different. I BELIEVE certain things BECAUSE they are logical. Some people, however, believe in God without the requisite proof/logic. That is what troubles me.

The problem I see with people that claim not to believe in God, is that their (and your) concept of God is too limited. God is a philosophical concept that has countless definitions, among numerous cultures. Let's look at one example: One statement in the Bible says that, "God is Truth". Maybe you cant conceive of a 'god', but you claim to believe Truth. I believe in God, ok. But for the sake of argument, let's say I believe the earth is only 6,000 years old. Does that mean, God is not truth, or is really that I don't understand what truth is, related to the earth's creation? Some define God as infinite knowledge, the common consensus is that 'God' has a knowledge beyond man's knowledge. You can't deny that there is knowledge beyond man's current understanding. And speaking of understanding, perhaps both you and I don't fully understand what is considered to be "the word of God". Let's stick to the topic of the earth's creation. The Bible claims the earth was created in "six days". But who are we to know that it was six earth days? There was not even an earth on the first day, according to the Biblical version of creation. And God is defined as creating stars, etc. So who are we to say God's 'day' is the same as an earth day, since we know that earth is only a small part of the universe? Anyway, many parts of the Bible can be taken as allegory. Scientific theories believe that the earth was formed, from part of the sun, and that there were different periods, same as what the Bible story claims. (days in the Bible, could equal what science refers to as 'ages'). Theories say that man was a more recent 'creation' than other species. That aligns with the Biblical order of creation also.

Lastly, I will say at the very least, God is a personification of Law. What you most likely don't believe, is the 'personification' part. But you have already admitted to believe in Law, as defined by scientific proof. So you too believe in Law(s), and many (most) philosophical concepts that others define as God. What about love, or I should say, Love?

[iagodelgado]

Many years ago I attended a marriage. The after-ceremony meal was interesting. As the husband of the wife who was the mother of the groom (he's not mine - previous marriage) I got seated on the top table along with the Roman Catholic priest who performed the ceremony. Basically it was family, plus me (outsider) plus priest (outsider).

So for about 2 hours, it was me (atheist) with Roman Catholic priest. It was quite enjoyable. He didn't push any religious propaganda. I didn't push science, logic or atheism. I learned a lot about the history of the church that afternoon, but that was how it was laid out - merely history - no need to dismantle another person's view.

Just as well, considering, 'cos I support Arsenal. I'm going to guess that you don't, like most people. This difference does not make me illogical.

[surf4490]

No being a Gooner is not illogical ,just a bit stupid

[Prospero]

Are we talking about the Pope?

[RallyCola]

Are we talking about the Pope?

the pope was simply just let down my his god. he resigned because his god saw fit to take from him health and vitality even though the pope is the closest person to god in the catholic faith.

that the pope lost the desire to serve his master till his death really should make catholics wonder and rethink their choices.

anyway, he was a shitty pope. he certainly was no PJP. i liked that little polack

[StinkyPete1000]

Many years ago I attended a marriage. The after-ceremony meal was interesting. As the husband of the wife who was the mother of the groom (he's not mine - previous marriage) I got seated on the top table along with the Roman Catholic priest who performed the ceremony. Basically it was family, plus me (outsider) plus priest (outsider).

So for about 2 hours, it was me (atheist) with Roman Catholic priest. It was quite enjoyable. He didn't push any religious propaganda. I didn't push science, logic or atheism. I learned a lot about the history of the church that afternoon, but that was how it was laid out - merely history - no need to dismantle another person's view.

Just as well, considering, 'cos I support Arsenal. I'm going to guess that you don't, like most people. This difference does not make me illogical.

A difference in opinion doesn't make you illogical. What makes some one illogical is when said opinion is illogical. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the point of your post is.