The "BOTTOM" line...

[RallyCola]

Not sure if you're calling my bias but a lovely ts friend of mine once qouted "One is not born woman but she becomes one"

With that being said, how can any man be gay or bi by default if the person of interest identifies as a woman as well as looks the part?

i'm not debating that. i agree with you that if you are a man and with a woman (genetic or trans) that's all well and good.

BUT, the difference is and always will be why you are with her. if you are with her to fulfill a fantasy or sexual fetish, and you see her as nothing more than the receptacle you deposit your cum in or on, you are really nothing more than a client, and i understand the judgement and resentment a girl would have if she knows you are with her for a cock. i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the label they choose to apply to their clients, but i understand the resentment. if you are with a woman that happens to still have a penis, but you are attracted to her, for her personality more so than the anatomy, that's a real and healthy relationship that bares no judgement.

[RallyCola]

oh, and one more thing...in my experience with transwomen who are not in porn/escorting, which is admittedly very small (n=11, but only 2 on a very close/friendly level), these are not questions they have because they are not sought after as pleasure objects and have far better self-image than what i witness here based on the opinions and insecurities girls do not realize they are demonstrating with some of their posts.

for a transwoman to label her clients as gay or doing gay shit speaks volumes about what she thinks of herself even if she types otherwise.

[BellaBellucci]

As for Bella, you can flip flop all you want but the fact is that you hate your dick and anyone who likes anything about it. Which is fine that's your curse. The problem is your occapation places your attitude at odds with the fans of your work who don't know any better.

And since most of the tgirls who've posted in thread have pretty much their own opinion on the men they attract you can stop telling me to listen to your comments as if they're law.

I can't take your word because I was simply turned out by a wiser breed of tgirl....LOL!

So every girl here who agrees with me (and that's most of them) is wrong? All hail the self-described chaser and his self-validating viewpoint. Apparently, if we don't love our bodies entirely - 100% - nor the men who fetishize and reduce us to the parts we dislike most, it's not their perversion; it's ours. We should just learn to not just accept our penises (even though they can be inverted) as what defines us because they're only thing men seem to want from us, and as I said before, we all need them to validate us or else we're good for nothing. I apologize for my insolence, oh master of transsexual attraction.

While I appreciate your desire to be my spokesman, as long as you're insistent on putting words in my mouth and forcing an objective discussion into becoming one about how your opinion of others trumps their own, you lack the ability. You should only speak for yourself, and even then, sparingly.

for a transwoman to label her clients as gay or doing gay shit speaks volumes about what she thinks of herself even if she types otherwise.

It's not about the activities; it's about the object of their attraction which is seldom an entire person.

~BB~

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

i'm not debating that. i agree with you that if you are a man and with a woman (genetic or trans) that's all well and good.

BUT, the difference is and always will be why you are with her. if you are with her to fulfill a fantasy or sexual fetish, and you see her as nothing more than the receptacle you deposit your cum in or on, you are really nothing more than a client, and i understand the judgement and resentment a girl would have if she knows you are with her for a cock. i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the label they choose to apply to their clients, but i understand the resentment. if you are with a woman that happens to still have a penis, but you are attracted to her, for her personality more so than the anatomy, that's a real and healthy relationship that bares no judgement.

See the problem with this set up is that I've got 3 ts friends that I've known for over 3 years who ramdomly call me up strictly for the things you've listed as fetish.

To them it's not a fetish it's simply how they get off. They don't ask for money, they don't ask to be taken out and they don't want a relationship.

They want to get sucked off, occassionally fucked and do some fucking of their own.

So how do these particular ts women fit into the equation of men who simply use tgirls as sex objects?

Should I feel used and appalled or when tgirls like Bella go off on one their typical rants just call up one of them for a "second opinon"? LOL!

[RallyCola]

Bella...do you see the inherent hypocrisy in your post (as well as the post you are railing against).

you are both arguing using the same logic but to reach different conclusions.

each of you are attempting to define the other based on your biases, while not accepting the definition the other will place on you.

its almost the "i'm rubber and you are glue" argument. there will never be an answer because neither of you will budge from your starting position.

[RallyCola]

See the problem with this set up is that I've got 3 ts friends that I've known for over 3 years who ramdomly call me up strictly for the things you've listed as fetish.

To them it's not a fetish it's simply how they get off. They don't ask for money, they don't ask to be taken out and they don't want a relationship.

They want to get sucked off, occassionally fucked and do some fucking of their own.

So how do these particular ts women fit into the equation of men who simply use tgirls as sex objects?

Should I feel used and appalled or when tgirls like Bella go off on one their typical rants just call up one of them for a "second opinon"? LOL!

well, first off, i don't believe that you have such a situation, as you would have led your argument with your own experiences rather than start a thread railing against labels.

more importantly, that you refer to them as ts women means that YOU are segregating them from women at large, and in that, you are seeing them as something different.

....but....what you are describing is a friend with benefits. that's NOT A FETISH unless you only see them as a cum dumpster.

you said something above about how a woman self-identifies, but what's critical here, and a point far too often missed and lied about is not about a woman's self-identity, but really how much a man equates a transwoman with a genetic woman beyond the physical attraction.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella...do you see the inherent hypocrisy in your post (as well as the post you are railing against).

you are both arguing using the same logic but to reach different conclusions.

each of you are attempting to define the other based on your biases, while not accepting the definition the other will place on you.

its almost the "i'm rubber and you are glue" argument. there will never be an answer because neither of you will budge from your starting position.

Wrong. I'm not talking about all men. I am not talking about men who are attracted to women who happen to have a penis. I'm talking about men that fixate on penis for their own gratification and to the minimization or exclusion of the rest of the person attached. I've phrased this in a multitude of different ways, so if you can't make that distinction, then that's on you. If you're doing it subconsciously, then you're in denial. If you're doing so on purpose, then you're just trolling.

I've said what I have to say here. Those of you who will twist it to suit your own needs should grow up.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

We should just learn to not just accept our penises (even though they can be inverted) as what defines us because they're only thing men seem to want from us, and as I said before, we all need them to validate us or else we're good for nothing.

This of course should read:

'We should just learn to accept our penises (even though they can be inverted) as what defines us because they're only thing men seem to want from us, and as I said before, we all need men to validate us or else we're good for nothing.'

Sorry. I'm suffering from a bit of malaise today.

~BB~

[RallyCola]

Wrong. I'm not talking about all men. I am not talking about men who are attracted to women who happen to have a penis. I'm talking about men that fixate on penis for their own gratification and to the minimization or exclusion of the rest of the person attached. I've phrased this in a multitude of different ways, so if you can't make that distinction, then that's on you. If you're doing it subconsciously, then you're in denial. If you're doing so on purpose, then you're just trolling.

I've said what I have to say here. Those of you who will twist it to suit your own needs should grow up.

~BB~

i'm not even arguing with you, you twit. i'm making a cognizant argument about how hypocritical both you and chase are being because you are both too stubborn to budge from your argument. oh well. you call it trolling...you call it denial...all meaningless words from a person whose opinion doesn't matter except for internet banter.

as i said to you in a PM some time ago...we are people just talking on a meaningless website, and it matters not what either of us think since we will never see eye to eye.

[BellaBellucci]

i'm not even arguing with you, you twit. i'm making a cognizant argument about how hypocritical both you and chase are being because you are both too stubborn to budge from your argument. oh well. you call it trolling...you call it denial...all meaningless words from a person whose opinion doesn't matter except for internet banter.

as i said to you in a PM some time ago...we are people just talking on a meaningless website, and it matters not what either of us think since we will never see eye to eye.

See eye-to-eye nothing. Reducing ANY person to ANY body part is wrong. Period. If you can't see that, then you don't belong anywhere near trans women. Stick to porn.

This isn't about opinion. It's about common decency. Get it now?

~BB~