The Koch Brothers and climate change

[Prospero]

Jamie you will desist from the sort of insults you offered me here - and have offered others in the past. if not all of your posts will be deleted. This is meant to be a civilised forum - so remarks like that highlighted by Martin are unnacepptable.

[broncofan]

Jamie,
I find it very difficult to follow your reasoning because you always seem to cite to an external source of information in lieu of proving your point. The problem is that nobody wants to read a separate article in order to find the piece of information you think supports your argument, particularly when you were the author of the article and should know what information in it is most germane.

The second point is that if one thinks the article's scholarship is of dubious value to begin with you don't improve your argument by linking to many different versions of it.

Why is it that one can never find your entire argument within your posts? Some people think that by linking to the words of others or to their own previously written work they appear learned. It only gives the impression that you are unable to summarize the important facts and are hoping to distract people from your argument's weakness by directing them to other sources of information.

For more on this see:
www.plagiarism.org/self-plagiarism/hallucinatorylogic/youwon'tfindanyproofhere

[broncofan]

BTW, my last post was not a criticism of posting informative articles generally. It is of the strategy of making five or so unsupportable points and then posting to lengthy works that don't provide support for it but saying they do.

Edit: it is not lost on me that Jamie did me the favor in her last post of narrowing an article to a 12 page range.

[Ben]

The environmental problems we face, all species face, is far more profound. For instance:

1) Water, air and soil pollution causes 40 percent of deaths worldwide, Cornell research survey finds:

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...seases.sl.html

[Jamie Michelle]

Jamie you will desist from the sort of insults you offered me here - and have offered others in the past. if not all of your posts will be deleted. This is meant to be a civilised forum - so remarks like that highlighted by Martin are unnacepptable.

That "insult", as you call it, is the inherent nature of government, the very government which you regard as your savior from supposed environmental crises. Government is by far the most mass-murderous terrorist organization to ever exist. The entire raison d’être of government is so that a ruling class can live off of the expropriated production of others. Regarding this, below are vital articles concerning the nature of government, of liberty, and the free-market production of defense:

Prof. Murray N. Rothbard, "The Anatomy of the State", Rampart Journal of Individualist Thought, Vol. 1, No. 2 (Summer 1965), pp. 1-24. Reprinted in a collection of some of Rothbard's articles, Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature and Other Essays (Washington, D.C.: Libertarian Review Press, 1974). http://www.mises.org/easaran/chap3.asp , http://www.mises.org/books/egalitarianism.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5ve3r05ti

Murray N. Rothbard, "Defense Services on the Free Market", Chapter 1 from Power and Market: Government and the Economy (Kansas City: Sheed Andrews and McMeel, Inc., 1977; originally published 1970). http://www.webcitation.org/5ve3w5w9a , ftp://myebooks.dyndns.org/computers/...y%20(1970).pdf , http://flashmirrors.com/files/otempz...and-Market.pdf

Prof. Hans-Hermann Hoppe, "The Private Production of Defense", Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. 14, No. 1 (Winter 1998-1999), pp. 27-52. http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/14_1/14_1_2.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5ve41VasQ

Hans-Hermann Hoppe, "Fallacies of the Public Goods Theory and the Production of Security", Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. 9, No. 1 (Winter 1989), pp. 27-46. http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/9_1/9_1_2.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5ve485kNf

Prof. David D. Friedman, "Police, Courts, and Laws--On the Market", Chapter 29 from The Machinery of Freedom: Guide to a Radical Capitalism (La Salle, Ill.: Open Court Publishing Co., 1989; originally published 1971). http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Libert...hapter_29.html , http://www.webcitation.org/5ve4A6KFZ

Concerning the ethics of human rights, the below book is the best book on the subject:

Murray N. Rothbard , The Ethics of Liberty (New York, N.Y.: New York University Press, 1998; originally published 1982). http://www.mises.org/rothbard/ethics/ethics.asp , http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5ve4GO9l5

If one desires a solid grounding in economics then one can do no better than with the below texts:

Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Economic Science and the Austrian Method (Auburn, Ala.: The Ludwig von Mises Institute, 1995). http://www.mises.org/esandtam.asp , http://mises.org/books/esam.pdf , http://webcitation.org/63rQDYtj2

The above small book by Prof. Hoppe doesn't delve into political theory, but only concerns the methodological basis of economics (i.e., the epistemology of economics). I would recommend that everyone read this short book *first* if they're at all interested in economics. There exists much confusion as to what economics is and what it is not. This book is truly great in elucidating the nature of economics and its epistemic basis. If one were to read no other texts on economics, then this ought to be the economic text that one reads. Plus it doesn't take all that long to read it.

Murray N. Rothbard, "Toward a Reconstruction of Utility and Welfare Economics", in Mary Sennholz (editor), On Freedom and Free Enterprise: The Economics of Free Enterprise (Princeton, N.J.: D. Van Nostrand, 1956), pp. 224-262. Reprinted in Murray N. Rothbard, The Logic of Action One: Method, Money, and the Austrian School (London, U.K.: Edward Elgar, 1997), pp. 211-255. http://www.mises.org/rothbard/toward.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5ve4WQnYm

Murray N. Rothbard, Man, Economy, and State (Auburn, Ala.: The Ludwig von Mises Institute, second edition, 2004; originally published 1962). http://www.mises.org/rothbard/mes.asp , http://www.mises.org/books/mespm.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5v3cOaaAG

Murray N. Rothbard, Power and Market: Government and the Economy (Kansas City: Sheed Andrews and McMeel, Inc., 1977; originally published 1970). http://www.webcitation.org/5ve3w5w9a , ftp://myebooks.dyndns.org/computers/...y%20(1970).pdf , http://flashmirrors.com/files/otempz...and-Market.pdf

These texts ought to be read in the order listed above. I would also add to the above list the below book:

Murray N. Rothbard, America's Great Depression (Auburn, Ala.: The Ludwig von Mises Institute, fifth edition, 2000; originally published 1963). http://www.mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/5v3cWFPsd

The above book concerns how governments create depressions (i.e., panics; recessions) through credit expansion (i.e., fractional-reserve banking and/or fiat money).

On the matter of politics in relation to God, see my below article, which demonstrates the logically unavoidable anarchism of Jesus Christ's teachings as recorded in the New Testament (in addition to analyzing their context in relation to his actions, to the Tanakh, and to his apostles). It is logically complete on this subject, in the sense of its apodixis.

James Redford, "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), December 4, 2011 (originally published December 19, 2001), doi:10.2139/ssrn.1337761. http://ssrn.com/abstract=1337761 , http://theophysics.host56.com/anarchist-jesus.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/66AIz2rJw

And see my below article, which demonstrates the logically unavoidable correctness of the anarcho-capitalist theory of human rights. It doesn't derive an "ought" from an "is"--rather, it derives an "ought" from an "ought": an "ought" everyone must necessarily presuppose in order to even begin to deny it.

James Redford, "Libertarian Anarchism Is Apodictically Correct", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), December 15, 2011, doi:10.2139/ssrn.1972733. http://ssrn.com/abstract=1972733 , http://theophysics.host56.com/Redfor...rtarianism.pdf , http://www.webcitation.org/63xyCLjLm

[martin48]

Quote for you, Jamie:

The fellow who thinks he knows it all is especially annoying to those of us who do.
- Harold Coffin

[broncofan]

http://www.mises.org/books/mespm.pdf

Hi Jamie,
It's going to take me at least a couple of weeks to read this approximately 1500 page pdf you linked. As an example of your gallantry can you stop posting until I'm done? I actually think I'm going to check all of the footnotes in the article if you think that would be a good use of my time. Fortunately I have 27 gallons of water and a full refrigerator.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=Jamie Michelle;1268304]
That "insult", as you call it, is the inherent nature of government, the very government which you regard as your savior from supposed environmental crises.
Government is by far the most mass-murderous terrorist organization to ever exist.
-And what 'Government' was Genghiz Khan the head of?

The entire raison d’être of government is so that a ruling class can live off of the expropriated production of others.
-Isn't that what Marx said? Ooops, I forgot you think Marx was part of the plot...

Concerning the ethics of human rights, the below book is the best book on the subject:
Murray N. Rothbard , The Ethics of Liberty (New York, N.Y.: New York University Press, 1998; originally published 1982).
--In your opinion maybe -what about Henry Shue? Carl Beitz? RJ Vincent? Thomas Paine?

If one desires a solid grounding in economics then one can do no better than with the below texts:
--one can MUCH better -why not start with Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations...?

Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Economic Science and the Austrian Method (Auburn, Ala.: The Ludwig von Mises Institute, 1995).

On the matter of politics in relation to God, see my below article, which demonstrates the logically unavoidable anarchism of Jesus Christ's teachings as recorded in the New Testament (in addition to analyzing their context in relation to his actions, to the Tanakh, and to his apostles). It is logically complete on this subject, in the sense of its apodixis.
--What preposterous rubbish, I could just as easily say that it is logically unavoidable to regard Jesus as a socialist. The socialist movement in Britain was founded on the non-established church. Ever heard of the Tolpuddle Martyrs?

And see my below article, which demonstrates the logically unavoidable correctness of the anarcho-capitalist theory of human rights. It doesn't derive an "ought" from an "is"--rather, it derives an "ought" from an "ought": an "ought" everyone must necessarily presuppose in order to even begin to deny it.
-there is nothing 'correct' about anarcho-capitalism, and it has nothing to do with logic; it is a choice and people make all sorts of choices, many have chosen to be Communists, for example; as for the prescriptive tautology, if you want to play with Hume's Guillotine be careful, you might hurt yourself.

[Jamie Michelle]

A bogus claim denied by the history of illness and disease -I did point this out to you in an earlier exchange but you refused to debate it. Your ignorance of the plague and various other diseases that wiped out large percentages of humanity doesn't fit your pseudo-political agenda.

Stavros, you have the reading-comprehension level of a severely inebriated derelict. Nowhere in any of my writings have I said that government has killed more people than anything else. Rather, I point out the fact that by far the greatest murderer in history is government.

The most egregious perpetrators of murderously brutal conspiracies are governments upon their own innocent citizens. More than six times the amount of noncombatants have been systematically murdered for purely ideological reasons by their own governments within the past century than were killed in that same time-span from wars. From 1900 to 1923, various Turkish regimes murdered from 3.5 million to over 4.3 million of its own Armenians, Greeks, Nestorians, and other Christians. The Soviet government murdered over 61 million of its own noncombatant subjects. The communist Chinese government murdered over 76 million of it own subjects. And Germany murdered some 16 million of it own subjects in the past century. And that's only a sampling of governments mass-murdering their own noncombatant subjects within the past century. (The preceding figures are from Prof. Rudolph Joseph Rummel's University of Hawaii website at http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/ .)

All totaled, neither the private-sector crime which government is largely responsible for promoting and causing or even the wars committed by governments upon the subjects of other governments come anywhere close to the crimes government is directly responsible for committing against its own citizens--certainly not in amount of numbers. Without a doubt, the most dangerous presence to ever exist throughout history has always been the people's very own government. (This is also historically true for the US government, as no group has killed more US citizens than the US government: viz., with the Civil War; etc.)

Not only were all of these government mass-slaughters conspiracies--massive conspiracies, at that--but they were conspiracies of which the 9/11 attacks are quite piddling by comparison.

[Prospero]

Jamie wrote: "Stavros, you have the reading-comprehension level of a severely inebriated derelict."

I bet you are terrific company, for you have all the charm of a gestapo officer.
Also to judge by your meandering and ludicrous postings you took an awful of LSD at some point in your life.