TV vs TS

[GroobyKrissy]

once and for all in my own words a transsexaul is a person whos feels like woman on the inside and has had these feelings most of their life.sorry if my opinion coincides with certain "facts".
i wouldnt judge on someone on whether or not theyre a ts on looks.i would have to get to know the person.shit my mailman could be a ts who just hasnt transitioned yet (or visibly) for all i know.
now im kinda done with this convo.i suspect that you just want to debate for the sake of it like another member said.normally that would be all well in good (i love to exchange ideas,opinions etc) but in this case we're just going in circles and as ive stated before im not fond of redundancy.

OK, well there it is in writing. Was that so difficult?

Of course, you're going to jump on the Giovanna_Hotel bandwagon of, ...Krissy just likes to cause trouble and be obtuse... It is often the response of people who have their beliefs challenged. So, don't go saying that you love to exchange ideas and opinions. Truth is, you love exchanging ideas and opinions with people WHO AGREE WITH YOU.

I love good debate because it causes me to think and rethink ideas. I welcome ALL points of view, even those contrary to mine, but I also don't have a problem pointing out flaws in logic when they exist. That is the nature of DEBATE... sometimes you're just wrong... and that's fine. Admit it and move on. ANYWAY...

I have no problem at all if your opinions happen to coincide with other peoples' published opinions. Mine do as well. So, let's take your own answers and apply them to the original post.

So, since a Transsexual is simply "...a person who FEELS like a woman on the inside and has had these feelings most of their life...", we can agree that anyone using the term TS on a dating site, should have those feelings. Yes?

BUT, since you "...wouldn't judge on someone on whether or not they're a ts on looks.i would have to get to know the person..." we can also agree that separating and marking persons on TS-related dating sites as "TV" when they use the term "TS" as a descriptor cannot be accurately done since you have not spent the time and energy to "...get to know the person". YES?

The conclusion is that you DO, in fact, disagree with the original post, by your own answers and admissions. If you're being honest above, your position would be that since you have no way of accurately knowing whether someone is truly "TS" on a dating site, the act of separating and segregating them out would be based on LOOKS alone... which was my original point (It should not be done like that).

So, why post: "I don't see anything wrong with his post." and then go on to basically disparage the TV population???

If you truly love exchanging ideas and opinions, keep an open and accepting dialogue and learn to admit when you haven't thought something through instead of shutting it down when someone challenges your beliefs.

[sophiebendable]

Don't have time to read through all this crap, but I seriously abhor all that "true transsexual" nonsense. All that matters is what gender someone identifies with, not their body or what medical diagnoses they have obtained. Many trans women are part time because they don't really have a choice given the circumstances in their lives or just haven't figured things out yet.

That said, the majority of transvestites identify as men. They are comfortable with their birth assigned sex, they just like to wear women's clothes sometimes. Therefore, while I acknowledge some fluidity, I do actually find it offensive to lump the two together by default. So, although I've read a lot of fucked up shit on this thread, I don't think there's anything wrong with what the OP was trying to say.

[amberskyi]

OK, well there it is in writing. Was that so difficult?

Of course, you're going to jump on the Giovanna_Hotel bandwagon of, ...Krissy just likes to cause trouble and be obtuse... It is often the response of people who have their beliefs challenged. So, don't go saying that you love to exchange ideas and opinions. Truth is, you love exchanging ideas and opinions with people WHO AGREE WITH YOU.

I love good debate because it causes me to think and rethink ideas. I welcome ALL points of view, even those contrary to mine, but I also don't have a problem pointing out flaws in logic when they exist. That is the nature of DEBATE... sometimes you're just wrong... and that's fine. Admit it and move on. ANYWAY...

I have no problem at all if your opinions happen to coincide with other peoples' published opinions. Mine do as well. So, let's take your own answers and apply them to the original post.

So, since a Transsexual is simply "...a person who FEELS like a woman on the inside and has had these feelings most of their life...", we can agree that anyone using the term TS on a dating site, should have those feelings. Yes?

BUT, since you "...wouldn't judge on someone on whether or not they're a ts on looks.i would have to get to know the person..." we can also agree that separating and marking persons on TS-related dating sites as "TV" when they use the term "TS" as a descriptor cannot be accurately done since you have not spent the time and energy to "...get to know the person". YES?

The conclusion is that you DO, in fact, disagree with the original post, by your own answers and admissions. If you're being honest above, your position would be that since you have no way of accurately knowing whether someone is truly "TS" on a dating site, the act of separating and segregating them out would be based on LOOKS alone... which was my original point (It should not be done like that).

So, why post: "I don't see anything wrong with his post." and then go on to basically disparage the TV population???

If you truly love exchanging ideas and opinions, keep an open and accepting dialogue and learn to admit when you haven't thought something through instead of shutting it down when someone challenges your beliefs.

Who said the criteria would have to be on looks.why not an interview or referral process?

[GroobyKrissy]

Don't have time to read through all this crap, but I seriously abhor all that "true transsexual" nonsense. All that matters is what gender someone identifies with, not their body or what medical diagnoses they have obtained. Many trans women are part time because they don't really have a choice given the circumstances in their lives or just haven't figured things out yet.

That said, the majority of transvestites identify as men. They are comfortable with their birth assigned sex, they just like to wear women's clothes sometimes. Therefore, while I acknowledge some fluidity, I do actually find it offensive to lump the two together by default. So, although I've read a lot of fucked up shit on this thread, I don't think there's anything wrong with what the OP was trying to say.

OK, since you will not take the time to actually read through the crap, let me challenge you on this...

Would you have a problem with a genetically born female stating that they find it offensive that most (educated) Transsexuals refer to themselves as "women"? Would you challenge that statement if it was posted here? My guess is that you would. If not, I probably don't need to explain why your argument is full of holes.

I would agree that the OP was TRYING to say something very simple but ended up stating something completely incorrect, in my opinion. I've already conceded that point in the crap somewhere. I agree with the sentiment (however unrealistic), just not the WAY it was stated.

[GroobyKrissy]

Who said the criteria would have to be on looks.why not an interview or referral process?

C'mon... it is unrealistic to do so. I thought that would be a gimme so I didn't even go there.

You cannot possibly expect that every TS-related dating site is going to spend the time and resources to personally (It would have to be in person since you could pretty easily just lie on a questionnaire... and everyone knows profiles are 100% accurate, right?) interview all persons who mark the "TS" box instead of the "CD/TV" box...

Like I said, thought that was pretty much understood.

[sophiebendable]

OK, since you will not take the time to actually read through the crap, let me challenge you on this...

Would you have a problem with a genetically born female stating that they find it offensive that most (educated) Transsexuals refer to themselves as "women"? Would you challenge that statement if it was posted here? My guess is that you would. If not, I probably don't need to explain why your argument is full of holes.

I would agree that the OP was TRYING to say something very simple but ended up stating something completely incorrect, in my opinion. I've already conceded that point in the crap somewhere. I agree with the sentiment (however unrealistic), just not the WAY it was stated.

Well what part of his phrasing in particular did you find disparaging towards transvestites?

In my mind, lumping me in with male crossdressers is actually a product of people thinking I shouldn't be included with the rest of the women (which is obviously how it works on all dating sites not designed specifically for tg people).

[sophiebendable]

Who said the criteria would have to be on looks.why not an interview or referral process?

You're kidding, right? That kind of shit does happen in real life to determine whether we have access to medical care. That's why Christine Jorgensen was originally turned down for SRS because she wore pants to the interview. The scrutiny was so terrifying to me that I waited to get on hormones until I had access to a clinic that doesn't work like that and just has you sign a consent form. Again, the only way to determine gender is based on how someone identifies themself.

[MsDazzler]

When I dressed part-time prior to transitoning full time and being on hormones currently, I did deny that I was transgender and labeled myself as a gay cross-dresser.

But I came to the realization that I was not doing it for fun, but because I truly wanted to present myself as a woman, matching what is inside. I only identified as gay because I liked men, but not women. Then I was able to get access to hormones and start my transition away from my family after I got my masters and did not need to rely on them for financial support (a huge reason why I delayed transition because I REALLY wanted my masters and avoid becoming an escort or doing porn because my family withdrew their financial support due to coming out earlier). So, now I am a full-time, preop, and straight TG (although I actually just define myself as a woman, but for semantics, I acqueise to the label of TS/TG).

My point was, I guess, that I did at one time identify as a crossdresser, and guys who were just hooking up did not give a fly about that as long as I looked pretty and passable. And I was wearing a WIG at that time, so basically back then I was a dude in a wig, but because I looked beautiful and passable, they did not care.

A hook up is a hook up, so I think that is why there is no distinction for TS/TV/CD, preop, etc in search engines on sex websites because if men visit those websites due to being horny, they will not give a fly about those labels as long as the girl looks passable and pretty.

[GroobyKrissy]

Well what part of his phrasing in particular did you find disparaging towards transvestites?

In my mind, lumping me in with male crossdressers is actually a product of people thinking I shouldn't be included with the rest of the women (which is obviously how it works on all dating sites not designed specifically for tg people).

Let us rewind.

The OP is postulating that TS dating sites themselves or users (or some higher authority) should have the all-knowing capabilities of separating out the TS (for the purposes of this conversation, defined by Amberski as those who FEEL the are women and have felt that way for the majority of their lives) population from the TV (defined as those dressing in women's clothing out of pure sexual thrill) population ending up in crystal clear search results.

In order to accomplish that, you would have to:
Accurately judge those who are CD/TV versus those who are TS.

Because that would be nearly impossible to do (stated in my previous post), the ONLY viable alternative would be make the determination based upon looks, which ends up being a "ewww...that person has a square jaw, or mustache, or doesn't look the part, or, etc. etc.

Asking for those lines to be drawn is, IMO, in and of itself, disparaging because you're making a judgement on people you know nothing about, based on looks. I thought it was implied in the crap somewhere along the way that I have a problem with the "based on looks" and who is doing the judging parts, which is almost impossible to get around when it comes to separating the CD/TV crowd from the TS crowd on something like a dating site.

[GroobyKrissy]

When I dressed part-time prior to transitoning full time and being on hormones currently, I did deny that I was transgender and labeled myself as a gay cross-dresser.

But I came to the realization that I was not doing it for fun, but because I truly wanted to present myself as a woman, matching what is inside. I only identified as gay because I liked men, but not women. Then I was able to get access to hormones and start my transition away from my family after I got my masters and did not need to rely on them for financial support (a huge reason why I delayed transition because I REALLY wanted my masters and avoid becoming an escort or doing porn because my family withdrew their financial support due to coming out earlier). So, now I am a full-time, preop, and straight TG (although I actually just define myself as a woman, but for semantics, I acqueise to the label of TS/TG).

My point was, I guess, that I did at one time identify as a crossdresser, and guys who were just hooking up did not give a fly about that as long as I looked pretty and passable. And I was wearing a WIG at that time, so basically back then I was a dude in a wig, but because I looked beautiful and passable, they did not care.

A hook up is a hook up, so I think that is why there is no distinction for TS/TV/CD, preop, etc in search engines on sex websites because if men visit those websites due to being horny, they will not give a fly about those labels as long as the girl looks passable and pretty.

And finally... an honest person. Kudos.