Obama Wins!

[JamesHunt]

Now we get another 4 years of Congress stonewalling him on everything.

Seriously, you arent insinuating that the Republicans will put their own agenda above the interests of the American people?

[RallyCola]

I'm actually very happy in my life but that doesn't mean I have to like one side over the other. I think they are both very dishonest.

you are not being consistent. i am not asking you to pick one side or the other. you are saying that they are both the same when they are not. moreover you are saying that the government exists to fuck you over, either to your face or behind your back, but then you are very happy with your life. it is in vogue to try to be all counterculture and against the establishment as well as the bicameral system, but you've offered nothing but inconsistent complaints without a viable alternative.

there are many people who share your POV and like it said, its a useless POV. if you think there is a problem...do something about it...run for office yourself. if you think you are powerless, then stop complaining.

i'll take a pseudo-oligarchy half capitalist/half socialist system any day over almost every other country's system world wide

[RallyCola]

Seriously, you arent insinuating that the Republicans will put their own agenda above the interests of the American people?

no...i don't think he is saying that at all. i think the republicans have the interests of the american people at the forefront of their agenda. i think their definition of who the american people are is just different than the democrats.

the american people for republicans: white males who earn a hefty wage
the american people for democrats: anyone who will vote against a republican

the difference is that republicans will protect their american people to the death where the democrats don't.

[robertlouis]

i'll take a pseudo-oligarchy half capitalist/half socialist system any day over almost every other country's system world wide

That describes France, Germany, Japan and the UK more or less to a T. The big difference is that we're not afraid of recognising the socialist content in our politics. Too many Americans are in denial or vociferously opposed to the notion of a mixed economy when it is, in fact, exactly what they've got - and how they'd miss it if it was run on pure market principles.

[RallyCola]

That describes France, Germany, Japan and the UK more or less to a T. The big difference is that we're not afraid of recognising the socialist content in our politics. Too many Americans are in denial or vociferously opposed to the notion of a mixed economy when it is, in fact, exactly what they've got - and how they'd miss it if it was run on pure market principles.

i chose my words carefully because we are not a democracy..we are a representative republic or pseudo-oligarchy and we have a mixed economy. the fucking new deal was the biggest socialist movement in this country that conservatives and liberals alike protect. we subsidize so many industries and commodities. but you nailed it...too many americans have a false sense of nationalism and what we really are.

i never said that the average american was smart...hey look....if the average american was smart, bleeding heart liberals and bible thumping conservatives wouldn't run the 2 parties. more moderates could be more vocal.

[Quiet Reflections]

you are not being consistent. i am not asking you to pick one side or the other. you are saying that they are both the same when they are not. moreover you are saying that the government exists to fuck you over, either to your face or behind your back, but then you are very happy with your life. it is in vogue to try to be all counterculture and against the establishment as well as the bicameral system, but you've offered nothing but inconsistent complaints without a viable alternative.

there are many people who share your POV and like it said, its a useless POV. if you think there is a problem...do something about it...run for office yourself. if you think you are powerless, then stop complaining.

i'll take a pseudo-oligarchy half capitalist/half socialist system any day over almost every other country's system world wide

I'm inconsistent because my personal life is good? So I should be jobless and homeless to disapprove of how or system works? I don't pretend to have all the answers but whats being served up just doesn't suit me.

[RallyCola]

I'm inconsistent because my personal life is good? So I should be jobless and homeless to disapprove of how or system works?

no...of course not. don't be silly because if you were jobless, you'd love how our system works.

but you are simply being inconsistent in what vexes you about our system. moreover, i've yet to hear a suggestion for improving it. complaints without any ideas of how to improve it or change it are as usless as a pimple on my asshole. sure its fun to poke at, but the novelty wears off pretty quickly.

[robertlouis]

i chose my words carefully because we are not a democracy..we are a representative republic or pseudo-oligarchy and we have a mixed economy. the fucking new deal was the biggest socialist movement in this country that conservatives and liberals alike protect. we subsidize so many industries and commodities. but you nailed it...too many americans have a false sense of nationalism and what we really are.

i never said that the average american was smart...hey look....if the average american was smart, bleeding heart liberals and bible thumping conservatives wouldn't run the 2 parties. more moderates could be more vocal.

Ok, maybe it's because I'm a UK liberal - which probably makes me trotskyist in US terms lol* - but while I think you've nailed the definition of the republicans, the dems are a long way from espousing genuinely bleeding-heart values. The other major difference is that as long as they remain in thrall to the Tea Party, the fundamentalists in the GOP will actively pursue their regressive social and religious ideals into policy. The Democrats are infinitely more pragmatic. Their change will be incremental and cautious, but it will still be change.

*Our present PM, who is leading the most right-wing government in a generation, would be seen as a communist in the US because of his adherence to the NHS, by the way! "Socialised medicine", which is essentially basic healthcare paid via taxes, operates successfully in the rest of the developed world. Why should the US continue to be different? And that's where the lobbyists of the second most powerful bloc in the US after defence, the healthcare lobby, have somehow managed to fool people into thinking it's evil. I really shake my head.

[Quiet Reflections]

no...of course not. don't be silly because if you were jobless, you'd love how our system works.

but you are simply being inconsistent in what vexes you about our system. moreover, i've yet to hear a suggestion for improving it. complaints without any ideas of how to improve it or change it are as usless as a pimple on my asshole. sure its fun to poke at, but the novelty wears off pretty quickly.

You are correct, I haven't offered up any ideas on how to improve or change our system but as far as why I don't like our system my opinion has never changed.

[RallyCola]

Ok, maybe it's because I'm a UK liberal - which probably makes me trotskyist in US terms lol* - but while I think you've nailed the definition of the republicans, the dems are a long way from espousing genuinely bleeding-heart values....

my wife and i are both registered democrats however i will first concede that US and UK definitions of "liberal" differs substantially.

So, while I cannot impress upon anyone else what a bleeding heart liberal is, I can tell you that my wife embodies my definition. She is the type of liberal that puts her fingers in her ears whenever any republican speaks and could easily be confused for a marxist because she likes large expansive federally funded progams