Transsexuality and feminisim

[danthepoetman]

If you are into this then you need to get into the dark side known as hungdevils.
Efe, a hot, horny trans has already been posted.
It is still to come, but the thread will end with Efe trans v fiery neo-feminista.
The thread is Italy Then And Now. Would you llke to try?

Iago, I wish I understood what you're referring to, buy I admit I really don't. Efe has expressed herself against such rhetoric?

[rydermorrison]

now that i think of it i'm not sure if the letter was penned by cathy Brennen or Julie Bindel..if ne one knows where i can fact check this let me know...

[danthepoetman]

"Quote:
The trans community has an unforgiving global sort of condemnation towards critical outsiders. I have to be suspicious that the insistence of many of those demanding to enter it is not for the purpose of celebrating the spirit and nature of women, but to seek an enforced validation, extracted by force in a legal or political manner."

Bella: This is not entirely wrong. I've been arguing about this in regards to those mentioned earlier who take no steps to change their appearance or presentation but insist by legal force that they are women. It's not fair to the rest of us who have done the work, and frankly, most of these people are just confused transvestites and crossdressers, although there are a few self-proclaimed transsexuals who exhibit similar behavior." Bella

Here, I find that you reinforce the arguments of your previous post, Bella. Once again, you mean to say that there is such a thing as authentic feminine values, and that gender is much deeper than any kind of “fetichism”. On the contrary, it is precisely the element that distinguishes a crossdresser from a transsexual. I once again totally agree.



"Quote:
In a world where equality between men and women was reality, transsexualism would not exist. The diagnosis of GD needs to be questioned and challenged. We live in a society that, on the whole, respects the human rights of others. Accepting a situation where the surgeon's knife and lifelong hormonal treatment are replacing the acceptance of difference is a scandal.

Bella: Wrong, wrong, wrong. Obviously somebody who has never transitioned cannot understand, or sometimes even perceive, the huge chasm between men and women in terms of equality. The author's theories are admittedly based on the failure to see this. The bottom line is that women ARE treated like second-class citizens and yet many of us choose to be who we truly are despite this obstacle and many others. That said, equality does not preclude transsexualism, and it does not usually factor into a person's decision to permanently change their body accordingly. Sometimes the reasons for SRS are legal, but the number one reason is still simply dissatisfaction with their birth genitals as they create sexual complications that require correction for most transwomen to feel whole and satisfied in their sex lives.

It’s difficult for me to relate to that reality, which by being a man I suppose is normal. But I agree that it’s one more testimony to the depth at which transsexuality is being felt and experienced, that someone who would understand gender relations as unequal would still want to go on with a transition to the socially disfavoured gender.
It’s probably because I am a man, once again, but to me, we too often confuse the ideal of gender equality before social institutions with that of identity between genders, which implicitly denies the deep reality of gender distinction. I think that is precisely what is in question here, to a large extent. To what extent does transsexualism contradict the hard core feminist values. I see that Ryder is alluding to a second and third waves of feminism; I admit my total ignorance of these variations. To me, feminism is usually based on the notion that gender is a pure social construction, and therefore has no root in a deeper reality, is somewhat “superficial”, can be denied and erased.

[danthepoetman]

If I can remember where I saw it, I will post the link to an article which claims 'most' M2F transexuals are victims of child abuse. I think another cause of the hostility is that the image of a beautiful woman that many (?) transexuals aspire to is to many (?) feminists not much different from the Stepford Wives or a Bunny Girl or any kind of woman whose persona is fixated on physical beauty at the expense of their intelligence-even though most of the ts I have known have also been brainy so its really the old issue of prejudice in the sense that some feminists judge the transexual by their appearance. But it has not been a happy relationship, that's sure. Camille Paglia I think was not so hostile, but not sure if anyone takes her seriously.

To me, once again, you pin it right on the spot, Stavros. This particular feminine aesthetic, for instance, is it just “fetichism” or is it the expression of a deeper reality. I keep coming back to that as in my opinion it is the very core of the question and especially, of the feminist point of view on both the social unequality and transsexuality.

Julie Bindel has been hugely influential in the feminist movement since the 70's. She actually wrote a paper to the U.N. in the early 70's that in a nutshell was the reason that health insurance companies were able to start denying coverage for trans related care and/or denying coverage to trans ppl in general based on a perceived "pre existing condition". She is the epitome of the white devil foreals ( the feminist movement was and still is very racist)... Gloria Steinem and the rest of the 2nd wave feminazis are pretty much the same deal...3rd wave feminism haw changed the movement alot but their is still alot of transphobia and racism...

now that i think of it i'm not sure if the letter was penned by cathy Brennen or Julie Bindel..if ne one knows where i can fact check this let me know...

Very interesting, Ryder. I will check this out, as I’m totally ignorant of what it is about. The names you’re giving here should allow me to get to know a bit more. Thanks!

So you also knew this woman, Athena? Something all new and very shocking to me –and I’m not easily shocked…

[danthepoetman]

To the person who’s giving thumbs down to Ryder and Athena, obviously because of an admiration for Julie Bindel, it would be nice if you would express yourself on the matter! I would like to know your opinion, and I’m sure I’m not the only one…

[rydermorrison]

Janice Raymond is the woman ive been thinking of. its been on the tip of my tongue for the last hour lol..

[danthepoetman]

Thanks again, Ryder.
By the way, this new avatar is mmmm! lovely!!!!!!

[rydermorrison]

thank u Dan

[loveboof]

In a few discussions with ladies on here, it has been suggested that gender is not biological but mental. Is that not quite similar to what this feminist woman is saying about gender roles?

(hardcore feminists are really annoying... lol)

[danthepoetman]

That’s precisely the question it raises, in my opinion. Now to me, genders have a biological origin, whatever culture adds to it. And there lays the idea that transsexuality, as a deep inadequacy between the feeling of gender identity and the genetic sex, is innate and biological, and therefore in the strongest sense of the word, absolutely “real”. And indeed, this view at least partly contradicts the feminist credo that genders are pure social constructions. That’s what struck me when I read these articles.
Yet, you have little “boys” who from a very early age, from the age at which it is said that the sense of gender forms, already claiming to be girls! It’s a thorn in the feminists foot (not to say ass), and you can understand the reasons of their frustration. But going as far as this lady, Julie Bindel, is going in her article, is showing utter blindness, imo; she can only remain impervious to any contradictory argument, in such a frame of mind.