Is The Bible Still Relevant Today?

[loveboof]

I just watched quite an interesting debate on youtube:



I was baffled by the way it was eventually (dismissively) conceded that humans have a moral code completely outside of specific religions & the Bible, but the conclusion about the Bible as a relevant moral authority was still in question...

It does make me think that religious people will never accept any fact or logic which does not simply reinforce the opinion they already hold!

[loveboof]

Here's a 'lower ability' question for people who don't want to watch an hour long debate. In the first few minutes of the video the pretty lady talks about the truth of bible stories (namely that most are completely false).

Any opinions on that?

[Quiet Reflections]

It will always be relevant as long as there are people that hold those words to be true

[loveboof]

It will always be relevant as long as there are people that hold those words to be true

Yeah.. well those people who believe it all to be true are just plain wrong. However, as a piece of literature it has been immensely significant, so on that basis it is still relevant today. But only on that basis.

As Richard Dawkins said, why should the Bible be given such a revered status?

When you have to cherry pick which parts are still relevant, or even simply not horrendous for our modern sensibilities, we are applying our own moral understanding to the bible and not the other way around.

If we are filtering which parts of the bible to listen to and which to ignore, why not use any complex work of literature as a guide?

There were lots of interesting opinions in that debate, but I suppose it was a bit unrealistic of me to assume you guys would want to spend an hour watching it.

[Prospero]

Whether or not you believe in God, it is certain that the book is very relevant - as the key cornerstone of Western civilisation, as the source of our moral and ethical universe, and as a book which millions still believe to contain the truth. It is also a beautiful work of art.

And Dawkins himself recently advocated that the King James translation should be taught in every UK school - in literature classes.

[trish]

If we are filtering which parts of the bible to listen to and which to ignore, why not use any complex work of literature as a guide?

Good idea. From here on out let's use CUJO. It has about the same moral tenor and literary value as the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Koran and the Book of Mormon combined.

[Willie Escalade]

As literature, yes.

As the definitive way to live YOUR life, not so much.

[loveboof]

Whether or not you believe in God, it is certain that the book is very relevant - as the key cornerstone of Western civilisation, as the source of our moral and ethical universe, and as a book which millions still believe to contain the truth. It is also a beautiful work of art.

I don't agree with this. It is not the sole source of our morality! What about the moral teachings from before Christianity (like the ancient Greek philosophers for example) - these are the things which were the source of the bible morality... Then consider the societies which predate the bible; they had their own systems of ethics. As I said, we are the filter for what is moral in the bible! There is so much that is immoral and disgusting in the bible we have to ignore it in order to be moral ourselves...

And I would argue that millions of people believing it to be true does not automatically make it relevant. What if they are mistaken? (I think they are)

Having said that, I do think it still holds relevance - but not as a source of authority. As Willie just said, it is relevant as a work of literature - That's it.

Good idea. From here on out let's use CUJO. It has about the same moral tenor and literary value as the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Koran and the Book of Mormon combined.

lol.. You could be right! (I've only seen the film)

Was the dog just evil or possessed or something? can't remember

[Prospero]

You cannot deny the relevance to the modern world if millions believe in it. Does not mean it is right. Just like the Qur'an or the Bhagavad Gita. These beliefs - for good or ill - have shaped the world we live in - and still do. As does the knowledge revealed by science.

Nor can you deny that the moral universe we inhabit was - largely - shaped by Judaeo Cristian values. For good or ill. Yes Greek philosophy helped shape that world too - though Aristotle more than Plato I'd argue.

I'm not talking about cherry picking the book. It's influence is everywhere.

And to dismiss it as "a work of literature" is simply wrong. It's impact and continuing influence is immensely greater (forgood or ill) than any work of literature. The Bible has in profound ways played a major role in shaping the world in which we live.

[loveboof]

You cannot deny the relevance to the modern world if millions believe in it. Does not mean it is right. Just like the Qur'an or the Bhagavad Gita. These beliefs - for good or ill - have shaped the world we live in - and still do. As does the knowledge revealed by science.

Nor can you deny that the moral universe we inhabit was - largely - shaped by Judaeo Cristian values. For good or ill. Yes Greek philosophy helped shape that world too - though Aristotle more than Plato I'd argue.

I'm not talking about cherry picking the book. It's influence is everywhere.

And to dismiss it as "a work of literature" is simply wrong. It's impact and continuing influence is immensely greater (forgood or ill) than any work of literature. The Bible has in profound ways played a major role in shaping the world in which we live.

I'm not dismissing the bible by referring to it as 'a work of literature', I am actually paying it a compliment. There are vastly superior examples of writing, story telling, drama, (or art) - but the bible is still interesting as a collection of works.

I am not denying the affect it has had on our society. However, the morality of Christianity can most aptly be summarised in the golden rule - which is a much older concept than the bible! So I do not concede that the moral universe I inhabit is largely shaped by Judaeo-Christian values!

Actually I find those values quite insulting when I properly consider their implications. On face value those areas of the Bible which we have deemed acceptable for our (relative) morality sound great, but when you consider that every moral commandment or virtues (as you favour Aristotle in this example + Thomas Aquinas for Christians) should be obeyed on the counterbalance of eternal damnation! What does that say about our morality?

Our moral code comes from us - not some external authority! The bible, insofar as it is a collection of writings by man, contains morality and systems of ethics. They are not divine though! They are man-made.

When considering it's relevance today, I'm talking about the Bible as a source authority.