my woman find out that I'd a tgirl was my ex ... she cried ...

[GrimFusion]

Oh wait... your saying Conditional Love exists... but it just has this habit of not working out in the long run...hmmmm funny how that is.

You loved her UNCONDITIONALLY but then things changed when she cheated on you... oops guess there was a condition after all...although a completely reasonable one to expect but a condition all the same...

Seriously this is why most people dont understand what Love truly is... they confuse it with all kinds of other really strong feelings the honestly "Feel" like you'd expect Love to feel... only they are not... Love is unconditional, its forever, love forgives (most people cant truly forgive either so dont get me started on that)... if it ends, goes south or wears off well guess what... it was damn close but it was something else. Dont confuse being "In love" with LOVE one is a mental state the other is something that is in all regards boundless as the universe and just as hard to comprehend.

Ive just about beat this point into the ground, either people get it or they dont - but if they dont - I cant explain this concept into anyone - thats like trying to make a blind person understand the color purple or red... you can describe all day long but no matter how close you get it wont be exactly the same as the real thing.

I rest my case...

I understand what you're trying to say, and I'll agree that many couples break up over some incredibly petty shit. There are plenty of couples that mistake feelings like lust, comfort, and excitement for love. In Martin's case, the end of his relationship was likely because his girlfriend never really loved him in the first place. The basic point I'm trying to make is that everyone has limitations no matter how genuinely loved they are at any given point in a relationship. I thought my example would illustrate that, but you chalked it up to my ex cheating on me. Sure, that was the last straw, but it's not what caused it's failure. It was my insecurities and her dishonesty that saw to that.

I just don't think it's fair to say that if a relationship eventually breaks down for whatever reason, that love wasn't genuine at any point. By that standard, love becomes this unobtainable, impossible idea only reserved for perfect couples. It defiles love and becomes a defense mechanism for past relationships that didn't work. What better a way to get over someone and simply dismiss the past than to claim there was never any love to begin with? In a sense, it's selfish because what is really being said is that you loved them, but they were too "in love" or self-centered to love in return and that's what caused the relationship to fail.

I'll agree that the idea of love and being "in love" are two different things, but it's nearly impossible to qualify or substantiate love since it's supposed to be unwavering. The best anyone can do is stipulate "Well, if nothing goes wrong and we feel the same in four years, it must be love". What happens in four years? The same question would need to be posed again. Meanwhile, if anything should happen in that four years that shakes the foundation of the relationship, even if it's as petty as a lack of time for each other, it's far too easy to mistake it as an incompatibility and end the relationship.

Unconditional love is a neat idea, but it's just about as rare as the practical uses of the word "infinite".
Lord Alfred Tennyson said "'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". I don't think he was talking about dead bitches.

[TempestTS]

I understand what you're trying to say, and I'll agree that many couples break up over some incredibly petty shit. There are plenty of couples that mistake feelings like lust, comfort, and excitement for love. In Martin's case, the end of his relationship was likely because his girlfriend never really loved him in the first place. The basic point I'm trying to make is that everyone has limitations no matter how genuinely loved they are at any given point in a relationship. I thought my example would illustrate that, but you chalked it up to my ex cheating on me. Sure, that was the last straw, but it's not what caused it's failure. It was my insecurities and her dishonesty that saw to that.

I just don't think it's fair to say that if a relationship eventually breaks down for whatever reason, that love wasn't genuine at any point. By that standard, love becomes this unobtainable, impossible idea only reserved for perfect couples. It defiles love and becomes a defense mechanism for past relationships that didn't work. What better a way to get over someone and simply dismiss the past than to claim there was never any love to begin with? In a sense, it's selfish because what is really being said is that you loved them, but they were too "in love" or self-centered to love in return and that's what caused the relationship to fail.

I'll agree that the idea of love and being "in love" are two different things, but it's nearly impossible to qualify or substantiate love since it's supposed to be unwavering. The best anyone can do is stipulate "Well, if nothing goes wrong and we feel the same in four years, it must be love". What happens in four years? The same question would need to be posed again. Meanwhile, if anything should happen in that four years that shakes the foundation of the relationship, even if it's as petty as a lack of time for each other, it's far too easy to mistake it as an incompatibility and end the relationship.

Unconditional love is a neat idea, but it's just about as rare as the practical uses of the word "infinite".
Lord Alfred Tennyson said "'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". I don't think he was talking about dead bitches.

Your confusing Love with a Relationship - once again similar but not the same thing.

Love is unwavering, its forever, endless boundless, without condition or exclusion, without limits, it does not even require that love is returned, which makes it pass beyond distance, time and yes beyond death - Tennyson was talking about all the above.

And RARE is exactly what it is.

You can hammer it, slam it, crush it, toss it about in any way you can imagine and damage it in ways that would make even the Devil weep but it cannot be broken, its metaphysical and goes far past most human understanding but once you see it you will never forget it and you will know that it is like nothing else in the universe.

If you have a problem with infinity you are limiting yourself without even knowing it, some things in the world cannot be quantified and we are just beginning to understand exactly how true that really is.

[bluesoul]

Point One - so what if he is? If he loves her and she loves him why should it matter? (granted in this case that rules out homosexual)

obviously to this girl it's important. if she doesn't want to date someone who is homosexual or bisexual, her opinion should be respected just as the opinion of martin c.

[TempestTS]

obviously to this girl it's important. if she doesn't want to date someone who is homosexual or bisexual, her opinion should be respected just as the opinion of martin c.

Holy Missing the forest for the trees batman

Nobody is saying her opinion doesn't matter, what Im saying is if you cant accept someone for who they are you sure as hell dont really love them.

For my next trick Im going to try convincing this wall that its really a flower... some how I think I just might have better luck...

[GrimFusion]

Your confusing Love with a Relationship - once again similar but not the same thing.

Love is unwavering, its forever, endless boundless, without condition or exclusion, without limits, it does not even require that love is returned, which makes it pass beyond distance, time and yes beyond death - Tennyson was talking about all the above.

And RARE is exactly what it is.

You can hammer it, slam it, crush it, toss it about in any way you can imagine and damage it in ways that would make even the Devil weep but it cannot be broken, its metaphysical and goes far past most human understanding but once you see it you will never forget it and you will know that it is like nothing else in the universe.

If you have a problem with infinity you are limiting yourself without even knowing it, some things in the world cannot be quantified and we are just beginning to understand exactly how true that really is.

I'm not confusing things. It's obvious that relationships can take place without love. That's how the majority of them tend to go. I know first-hand that love can be dealt and not received. I also know from experience that I've loved and then simply stopped loving. It's not as though I fell in love then fell out of it because being "in love" essentially means an unreasonable infatuation exists. There was nothing unreasonable or infatuating about it. I loved her because there wasn't a reason in the world for me to feel any different... but then I found one.

I don't want to spend too much time squabbling over petty word definitions, but "infinite" isn't the same as "unquantifiable". If you know of something that is truly thought of as never-ending, it's new news to me. Last I checked, science shows that nothing is truly infinite and I don't see how love could be an exception when the universe we're in certainly isn't. I think it's far less Nihilistic to identify and value love when it exists than to assume love never exists if at any point it ceases. Swapping "infinite" for "unquantifiable" seems more sound, but it also admits there is an end to all love; it's simply indeterminable which isn't the stance you've been taking so far.

I think this debate requires we both arrive at a stalemate. It's obvious we have two different opinions of what love is and how it should be defined. I'm a bit more of an opportunist and you've resided as an idealist. You have far more faith in love than I do and arguing over matters of faith is kinda pointless.

[bluesoul]

Holy Missing the forest for the trees batman

Nobody is saying her opinion doesn't matter, what Im saying is if you cant accept someone for who they are you sure as hell dont really love them.

For my next trick Im going to try convincing this wall that its really a flower... some how I think I just might have better luck...

my point is that maybe she did. she just couldn't accept his homosexual behavior. i will await your magic trick with enthusiasm

[GrimFusion]

my point is that maybe she did. she just couldn't accept his homosexual behavior. i will await your magic trick with enthusiasm

I'll take a shot at this. No matter which definition you tend to agree more with, Tempest's or mine; even if you don't agree with either of us and have some other idea of what love is, love still requires forgiveness. In my opinion, some things just shouldn't or cannot be forgiven, but that's beside the point. Martin's girlfriend wasn't at an end-pass with no other recourse.

Impact. What impact did Martin's behavior have on his girlfriend? With the exception of filling her head with homoerotic images she probably didn't want to think about, what impact did Martin's past relationships have on her? None. She heard something she didn't like and instead of assessing damage and coming up empty-handed then dealing with her own insecurities like a grown up, she assumed his behavior would have lead to actions which would have made the relationship impossible and decided to call it quits right then and there.

Fill-in-the-blank negative assumption isn't conductive to love. It's not even conductive to being in-love. Frankly, it's petty when the worst assumed scenario becomes the fodder for a breakup. It just means that two people aren't willing to even communicate, so how could there be any sort of mutual or genuine love?

[bluesoul]

I'll take a shot at this. No matter which definition you tend to agree more with, Tempest's or mine; even if you don't agree with either of us and have some other idea of what love is, love still requires forgiveness. In my opinion, some things just shouldn't be forgiven, but that's beside the point.

i also believe in consequence and responsibility. you can date whomever you want (love is blind), but not everyone will agree or respect your choices. not only do i subscribe to this, i apply it daily.

[zdubya69]

Most people sees transexuals as a gay not as a transwomen....I bet there is more then what we read from his story....Im sure that she called him a gay.In UK is someting normal for men to ask :If i have sex with transexual makes me a gay?U started a relantionship with this new girl ,u slept with her once and suddenly she finds out that u had sex with a tranny?She most be a physic lol

Excellent point .It seems most of the public has no clue about transsexualism as a whole.
There is a lot of mis information and confusion about the whole subject.
Differences between Cross dressers, Transvestites, and Transsexuals are allegedly not known or recognized in the greater portion of the population. Dare I say that even the enlightened community here at hung angels also descend into name calling and confounding situations where it may or may not be okay to be attracted to transsexual women. ie the "cock hounds" vs the "straight" males etc.
Education is the key, but the door which must be opened by the key is the door of your mind.

[GrimFusion]

i also believe in consequence and responsibility. you can date whomever you want (love is blind), but not everyone will agree or respect your choices. not only do i subscribe to this, i apply it daily.

You can date whomever you want? Woah, I've had this dating thing backward for years! lol. Dating doesn't necessitate love. It's not an eventuality, and I'm sure you'd even admit to dating women you couldn't give your all to like that.

Hard-nosed consequence and responsibility whether enforced on others inside or outside of a relationship is kinda sad, man. It shows a lack of compassion and it discounts that everyone lives different lives and can arrive at making decisions you deem to be incorrect in ways you could never assume. Ways that would likely seem justified if only you were to hear them out.

Besides, while setting concrete boundaries in a relationship isn't unheard of, trying to make your spouse abide by those boundaries is essentially the same as trying to control them. It's great if you have pre-requisites or expectations of the people you entertain dating before becoming involved, but once involved, all of that kinda flies out the proverbial window and you either become more or less interested.