What makes the Germans so successful?

[onmyknees]

Being mostly of German decent and still having relatives there, the answer to your question is muli layered. I agree with Jimbo's post and would use the word disipline to add to it. A strong economic, growth, and monetary policy is the foundation. Next comes supberb education. A strong work ethic forged by a post war generation who for decades had to go without. And let's face it...the strongest part of the German econmy is exports. Everything from autos, motorcycles, to high tech medical and communications equipment...the Germans engineer and manufacture it better than anyone. They make quality products the world wants and needs. And for those politically correct pinheads, Libby's comments are spot on, and certainly play a part in why the German economy thrives. When you're taking in the worlds poor and uneducated by the millions like the US and UK, it has a profound drag on a nations economy. If you're a denier, then you just don't understand economics. I give you California and Arizona as two examples....both are tettering on bankruptcy from the weight of illegal immigration. There's no mystery why Canada and Germany have probably 2 of the most prosprous economies in the world. Their immigration policies are restrictive. I'm not suggesting that's the only reason, it's certainly more complicated than that alone, but to discount it is folly. Unless you bring an engineering degree to the table....you'll be waiting a very long time for your visa. If you doubt me.....try to cross into Canada at one of the upstate NY crossings. You have anything more a traffic infraction, and you're not getting in....contrast that with the US southern border where thousands flood across the border each and every day.....uneducated, hungry, in need of health care and employment and shelter.

[broncofan]

OMK,
Every German I met in the U.S is superbly educated as you say. But of course there is a sample bias. Every East Indian I've met is also superbly educated for the same reason even if there are plenty of brilliant East Indians. But the Germans are probably pretty well educated as a whole and I don't doubt this contributes to their economic success.

Stavros seemed to have a good answer to your suggestion that it was because they prevented illegal immigration and had restrictive immigration policies on the whole. I understand the potential for immigrants to take money from social services, but don't immigrants often have their labor exploited? This should only help business profits. Perhaps their strict immigration policy is helpful, but it would be interesting to see some empirical evidence of that.

It is also a bit too tempting to assume that a country that is successful is doing everything right. It could be that they are doing all of the things they should be doing a bit better than everybody else. Or there happen to have been a lot of German innovators in this generation. But not every German policy is going to be traceable to their economic success.

[joeninety]

Why not just simplify it German style rather than going into some long winded factualness that ultimately leads to nowhere.

Germans are ruthlessly efficient, they have a very strong work ethos ingrained into their society, they are well educated, take pride in what they do, they do not suffer fools gladly, and when they work their is no I in team, they are a well oiled united machine each member of that society does its role well (on the whole) for the greater good of the society.

Add to the list that they think things through a lot more than your average European (as in they're are not impulsive) and by virtue are quite logical and methodical in their thinking and approach to life, plus their is a decent level of trust in their society and generally the members believe and trust the system, partly due to the system methodology evidently working well, which is probably partly down to lack of corruption against members within the society and as all productive members (not just high society members) are valued and rewarded it is clear why they will outlast us.

Put all of the above together and ingrain it into every member of German society then it becomes obvious why German society is thriving, they have taken the best bits of Capitalism, Communism and Socialism and efficiently & effectively turned it into their very own brand of Germanism.

[Stavros]

OMK,
Stavros seemed to have a good answer to your suggestion that it was because they prevented illegal immigration and had restrictive immigration policies on the whole. I understand the potential for immigrants to take money from social services, but don't immigrants often have their labor exploited? This should only help business profits. Perhaps their strict immigration policy is helpful, but it would be interesting to see some empirical evidence of that.

I am not sure that is what I meant -the 'Guest workers' who became an important part of the 'German economic miracle' it was assumed would return home at the end of their contract, but did not -and their children are Germans citizens -the last German soccer team in the European championship that ended a week ago had players with names like Gomez, Khedira, and Ozil. Illegal immigration was not as big a problem as immigrants arriving at Berlin's airport and asking for political asylum, this did become a problem in the 1990s. But yes, immigrants who do not have immediately usable professional skills are often found picking strawberries for low wages, but these days they are most likely to come from the poorer members of the EU like Romania and Bulgaria.

[Stavros]

Being mostly of German decent and still having relatives there, the answer to your question is muli layered. I agree with Jimbo's post and would use the word disipline to add to it. A strong economic, growth, and monetary policy is the foundation. Next comes supberb education. A strong work ethic forged by a post war generation who for decades had to go without. And let's face it...the strongest part of the German econmy is exports. Everything from autos, motorcycles, to high tech medical and communications equipment...the Germans engineer and manufacture it better than anyone. They make quality products the world wants and needs. And for those politically correct pinheads, Libby's comments are spot on, and certainly play a part in why the German economy thrives. When you're taking in the worlds poor and uneducated by the millions like the US and UK, it has a profound drag on a nations economy. If you're a denier, then you just don't understand economics. I give you California and Arizona as two examples....both are tettering on bankruptcy from the weight of illegal immigration. .

You have not mentioned TAXES, just as one example. If the rot set in in California it was with Proposition 13 in 1978, reducing property tax to 1% of the cash value of property as it was in 1975. The concept of taxation in Calfornia seems alien to people, yet they want 'someone' to fix the road, provide street lighting probably even schools, but they don't want to pay for it out of taxes; so the rich get what they want and the poor get the rest, whatever that is.

You do not encounter such madness in Germany; people are taxed at a level which would be unacceptable to many Americans particularly those who bend towards the Republican Party and its Tea Party tails. If Taxes aren't enough, Germany also provides services for its citizens which would be considered socialism by the same 'many Americans..' ditto above. The problems being experienced in California and Arizona have nothing to do with illegal immigration, but the poor management of those states, inheriting decades of economic and social change that successive state administrations did not know how to manage.

That you should lay all the blame on people who were born speaking Spanish rather than your 'fellow Americans' who have actually been in government all those years, suggests you do not know what you are talking about.

[joeninety]

Here here Stavros couldn't agree more with your assessment of the American situation, too much scapegoating going on with regards to "The Immigrants" but at the end of the day who lets said Immigrants into these countries, that's right the policy makers and why is that because they are a very cheap hard working labour force who are happy and grateful to do low paid, long hours work that the natives simply never would, as they are not desperate enough and have had it good for too long, and have literally become fat and lazy.

So simply put immigrants fill a void and policy makers know this and turn blind eyes.

Most people are media brainwashed into believing its the immigrants fault for a lot of what is going on, when in reality the ones at fault are those that fail to manage the system properly due to their incompetence and a percentage of their native citizens who want an easy ride.

[Stavros]

Here here Stavros couldn't agree more with your assessment of the American situation, too much scapegoating going on with regards to "The Immigrants" but at the end of the day who lets said Immigrants into these countries, that's right the policy makers and why is that because they are a very cheap hard working labour force who are happy and grateful to do low paid, long hours work that the natives simply never would, as they are not desperate enough and have had it good for too long, and have literally become fat and lazy.

So simply put immigrants fill a void and policy makers know this and turn blind eyes.

Most people are media brainwashed into believing its the immigrants fault for a lot of what is going on, when in reality the ones at fault are those that fail to manage the system properly due to their incompetence and a percentage of their native citizens who want an easy ride.

If you want to take this further, this link -albeit from 1998- justifies Proposition 13 as a tax break that encouraged economic growth:
http://www.cato.org/publications/com...en-now-forever

This link, on the other hand, argues that illegal immigrants have been part of the economic success of Texas, and claims legalizing their status would benefit the USA:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/have-...-to-its-knees/

I don't see how problems in a state as complex as California can be reduced to illegal immigration; it is likely that state government and the costs of its polcies in education, and particularly prisons, are part of the problem. This third link on Folsom Prison makes chilling reading when you calculate the cost of the Three Strikes And You're Out policy. You have to task yourself if shoplifting really is worth a life sentence.
http://www.npr.org/2009/08/13/111843...s-prison-blues

[Prospero]

And has anybody here mentioned US economic aid in the postwar years which poured into germany to help rebuild it's economy? Millions of US dollars between 1948 and the end of 1951.

[Stavros]

And the UK, and Italy, and Greece...but in addition to the high volume of US capital that was crucial to economic growth in Europe after 1945, European capital was instrumental in the economic growth of the USA before and after 1945...why the subsequent experience of economic life should be so different must be due to non-economic factors, such as politics. Which is why it was absurd of onmyknees to use one aspect of the economy in California to explain the whole.

[Prospero]

I agree Stavros... but he is dancing to a singular tune as we know.