What makes the Germans so successful?

[fastingforlife]

Actually there was considerable social unrest in Germany during unification - with outbreaks of racist violence, especially in the former East Germany. And savage attacks on Turkish immigrant workers in the West also.

If there is ever unification of the two Koreas, I wonder how well the Koreans will deal with the social unrest? Although, I don't expect to be alive to see it.

[Stavros]

I am not sure what it meant by 'social trust' it sounds to me like someone is afraid of using words or concepts that come perilously close to socialism. The German economic miracle of the 1950s was based, in part, on capital imported from the USA under the Marshall Plan, so on one level Germany wouldn't have recovered so quickly from devastation without American money. Germany was also smaller than it is now, as we are talking about West Germany. Secondly, the Germans, like other European countries, introduced social welfare, and nationalised industries such as the railways which would be unthinkable in the USA where the idea of state ownership of industry is anathema. The Germans had centuries of education,science and culture on which to base their economic and moral recovery, indeed the need to be different from the strident nationalism of the 19th century and the appalling concept of race that destroyed Germany from within in the 20th century, created in Germany, in spite of re-armament in 1955, and its position as a front-line state in the Cold War a strong pacifist strain in public politics. In addition, Germany was the initial signatory of the Iron and Steel Pact which formed the basis of economic co-operation that evolved into the European Union, an economic venture that was -and remains- a major benefit to the Europan area as a whole.

Other factors include Germany's ability to make things that sell at home and worldwide, that German workers get higher wages than other Europeans, that immigrant or 'guest-workers' from Turkey, Italy and the former Yugolsavia formed an important part of the unskilled labour force at a time when demand was high, and you have a multi-skilled, multi-national workforce funded from international sources receiving generous wages and benefits with the state providing a wide range of services. I am sure others can provde more reasons, I recall some interesting insights from RobertLouis in a thread last year I think.

[nina_lisa]

Here is a big difference between the mentality in Germany and other country.

In USA UK and many countries, a jeans cost $234 i only have $120 in my pocket: this jeans look awesome, i'll take some debt on my credit card.

So when things are good, you see more growth in countries where people spend easier.


Germany, go to a bar of coffee shop: the €2 coffee they pay it with 0.10cents peaces.

In London, go to a coffee shop, the £2 coffee people will often pay it with a £50 bill.

So in case of a crises Germany has still some money left and they feel confident in their economy and don't spend less.

[JamesHunt]

Social Trust!

The belief that the government, your neighbor and your employer are not out to screw you.

Interesting stuff, in the UK, the Government, your neighbor and employer, aswell as every other tom dick and harry are out to screw you, so this is where we are all going wrong?

Actually there was considerable social unrest in Germany during unification - with outbreaks of racist violence, especially in the former East Germany. And savage attacks on Turkish immigrant workers in the West also.

Merkel says German multicultural society has failed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451

[Ben]

It could also be that there's more income equality in Germany. I mean, America has deep income inequality. And hence the social ills that come with it. According to English epidemiologist Richard Wilkinson:

[fastingforlife]

It could also be that there's more income equality in Germany. I mean, America has deep income inequality. And hence the social ills that come with it. According to English epidemiologist Richard Wilkinson:

I believe Wilkinson's points are worth considering. Medical doctors back in the 1950's made a nice income. As soon as insurance companies got into the act, during the mid 1960's, incomes skyrocketed, creating enormous inequality, and runaway inflation which shows no sign of abating.

He may be on to something.

[jimbo1974]

I spend quite a lot of time in Germany, and have my own views :

The Germanic race have always "fallen in line" into a successfull hierarchical society, built from the bottom up, where the manual workers / producers are valued in society - all the way up to the top of the triangle. This probably explains why their manufacturing sector is so strong.

Their Politicians have also been more logical and less short term than the US / Britain, probably because they have had to deal with serious issues (such as unification) which required long term planning, rather than 4 year cycles. No doubt the fact that coalition governments in Germany has also been a benefit, although this maybe argued.

Germany has also always been very good at looking after their own self interests. They pushed hugely for the creation of the EURO, and since its implementation have benefitfed HUGELY. Dont kid yourselves. They have exported, exported, exported more and more of their goods since the euro because of the "one size fits all" exchange rate, that simply wouldnt have been their if the DM had been around. Combine this with their low borrowing rates......

[Stavros]

I agree with most of your post Jimbo except the concept of the 'Germanic race' which does not exist. The Nuremberg laws of the 1930s exposed the difficulty the Nazi's had in defining either a Jew or a German. In addition, where in your contemporary Germany do you place the Turks, the Italians, the Yugoslavs and all the other 'non-Germans' without whom there would have been no economic 'miracle'? But yes, workers are valued more in Germany than in the UK, they even have guaranteed seats on the boards of major companies, which would be considered eccentric here.

[jimbo1974]

Ok - replace the words germanic race, with Germans, or the majority of Germans.

[Stavros]

Indeed! But if there is something in the argument about northern and southern Europeans, I wonder if it is the way that people have responded to the modern state. The unification of Germany did not take place so long after Italian 'unification' in 1861, yet the experience of the modern state was so different for both, more heavily contested in Italy for example, and some have argued that the defeat of the Kingdom of Naples and Sicily is the foundation of the instability that has undermined economic and political progress in the Mezzogiorno. It can't be about some inability to create, because Italian motor cars have been in the top quartile since the industry began, and Italy is famous for its design culture. So I am thinking there must be issues at the level of tax collection, regional and national identity, and maybe even the lack of immigration that explain why in some respects the Italian state and the performance of its economy has been weaker than Germany.