When Do Ethnic Jokes Become Explicitly Racist

[broncofan]

I don't know what the intention of the OP was in the case of the "Jews Bitching" thread was, but the reaction was pretty predictable, and it all became unnecessarily heated. What I found really worrying, and I don't know if this is a generational thing, but some of the younger members seemed to think it should be ignored or forgotten.

The day we forget the holocaust is the day that we forsake our humanity.

Thanks for saying that. As you say, it's important as a lesson for humanity not specifically for Jewish people. And I can go years without mentioning it. That doesn't mean I don't think it can be a relevant educational subject or even a useful analogy if appropriate.

It's not as though I bring it up to get out of a dinner check. I usually just say I forgot my wallet.

But yes, I think it is just a blase attitude towards racism generally and not specifically my group. People say the same thing about Jim Crow in this country and lynch mobs and I don't like the argument there either. As soon as someone says they think that the history of segregation in the U.S is brought up too much you know they're not really thinking. They have no clue that we had a segregated society until at least 1964. There's nothing at all funny about that.

[trish]

Lol,, sorry, my blonde hair is getting in my way, I'm still confused.

I guess what I was trying to say, who makes the what is a joke and what is not. I know the owner of the site has the final say in anything, he owns the place, he can take the ball and go home and no one will ever play again. But who can really decide what is offensive and what isn't,, there is some sort of line and it can be crossed very easily. Maybe one person won't see that, but another might. There are some things said that are just bizarre but there are some borderline stuff and can be difficult to say, is it offensive, is it not offensive, all in the eye of the beholder sort of thing


This is Not directed at you Trish:
But don't let me stop the fun,, people get out there and keep the posts coming. They have been weird and bizarre from the first day I joined and I really don't see any change in the future, near or far. Someone will always find fault, someone will always be nasty, it's the theme here, so continue on with the posts.

Are you poking fun a blondes, or just yourself? Seriously, the two examples are only an attempt to clarify what I meant about the difference between making fun of the supposed characteristics of a group and the beliefs of the group. They certainly aren't an attempt draw a borderline between what is offensive and what is not. Indeed I think some jokes about some stereotypes are probably not offensive and some jokes about beliefs are. I doubt one will find an ideal form for inoffensive humor in the world of platonic forms. I merely mean to say that I will always regard humor (or at least attempts at humor) aimed at beliefs and ideas as fair game.

[Prospero]

A few years back a British comic called Jasper Carrot addressed this issue when he took all the jokes that might be directed at racial and ethnic minorities and substituted "Sun readers' in his punchlines. This won't mean much to US readers here - but it's akin to inserting Fox News viewers instead of jews, blacks, irish etc. The idea was that the poke was at a broad and racially/ethnically unspecified group of what viewers knew thus to be stupid people.

[Prospero]

I think that humour directed against a group who are weak or discriminated against is unnaccetable. But, generally speaking, if you want to direct humour against people such as the Conservative party, the Democrats, the Republicans, the catholic Church, the Government of Iran or Russia or france or against powerful people wherever that is fine.

But so much is about context and if you pursue the path of political correctness too far then all potential for humour is quashed

[buttslinger]

I've noticed that Trish, Yvonne, and Natina seem to carry around their own prickly wounds under their skin, maybe posting some provacative photos would cleanse away any possible shame pockets and give this pain to the group, the world, the final solution. Just a trhought.

[Stavros]

When do jokes about women become explicitly sexist? Jokes are meant to raise a laugh through ridicule. Some of the most popular jokes in history have been made at the expense of the ruler or ruling class: the English MP Tony Benn's favourite comedian was Benny Hill because he regularly ridiculed people in authority: taking the side of the 'little man' against the mighty officials of state can be subversive: when TV was small enough to be a national medium of expression, a BBC programme That Was The Week That Was produced the kind of acerbic political satire that would have been not just unthinkable in previous decades, it would not have been allowed: and there are people who think it is a mistake to ridicule politicians because it undermines the political system.

Jokes can also be a means of power: the secret, shared joke about a dicator is one way of usurping his power; jokes about Jews are often based on the myth of their unseen power -often financial because Jews in Christian lands were allowed to charge interest when Christians were not- and are designed to reduce the myth of their power to something without value: the need is to make some slur about the person to suggest they are deficient: the same purpose of jokes about the Irish in Britain, that they are hopelessly unintelligent: I was told that in Canada the people of Newfoundland are the butt of the jokes which in the UK are made about the Irish.

The obvious point would be: is the joke funny? Is it something that a Jew would also laugh at: Jackie Mason's routine is based on his being a Jew, I think -could his jokes all be about Jews? I don't believe in race or racism, these are bogus categories that replace critical and clear thinking, they are the badges of intellectual laziness. Jokes that are designed to hurt or slander are not jokes anyway, they become a form of provocation, of hate speech, it is the intention that matters: to raise a laugh by depleting someone's pomposity, to remove an air of authority from some official who ought not to have it; or to insult someone?

[Yvonne183]

Are you poking fun a blondes, or just yourself? Seriously, the two examples are only an attempt to clarify what I meant about the difference between making fun of the supposed characteristics of a group and the beliefs of the group. They certainly aren't an attempt draw a borderline between what is offensive and what is not. Indeed I think some jokes about some stereotypes are probably not offensive and some jokes about beliefs are. I doubt one will find an ideal form for inoffensive humor in the world of platonic forms. I merely mean to say that I will always regard humor (or at least attempts at humor) aimed at beliefs and ideas as fair game.

That was quite good catching me on the blonde thing. What I said could have been taken as an insult by some. lol

I guess being a blonde sort of gives me a pass, similar to what someone here said about Jewish jokes being said by Jewish people.

I am still kinda confused, maybe I'm not getting it fully. But it's OK, the forum should run free style, if I don't like some posts, I can always respond or just not come to the forum if I feel the forum doesn't fit my needs,, we all have the free will to choose. Gotta go to bed now, maybe later on after a sleep I'll understand better.

And Mr. Butt,,, nope, no provocative pics coming from me. I don't need my wounds cleansed, I am happy bottling all wounds up inside me.

[buttslinger]

And Mr. Butt,,, nope, no provocative pics coming from me. I don't need my wounds cleansed, I am happy bottling all wounds up inside me.

Well, know this: Butt loves the fighters.