When Do Ethnic Jokes Become Explicitly Racist

[Yvonne183]

There is a difference between making fun of members of a group and poking fun at the beliefs of those members. IMO the latter is satire and always fair game. The former is trickier. The mods have every right to decide what face they would like these boards to present to the world. Here's a related question: Is it okay to spam the general and political forums if you got banned for offensive speech?

I had time to think. lol

Do you mean like making fun of Christianity is OK but to make fun of a Christian personally is wrong? Jokes about blacks in general is OK but a joke about the person himself is wrong?

[trish]

Example One: Jews have long noses for sniffing out money.

Example Two: Jews rightfully govern Jerusalem because the one and only King of Kings gave it to them to govern, but He forgot to give them the deed.

The former is making fun of the members of an ethno-religious group, the latter is making fun of a belief generally held by the religious members of that group.

[robertlouis]

In answer to the OP, I'd say that it becomes potentially racist the moment it's uttered in public. With all such statements it's less about the intended message and more about the response from the audience, and if it causes offence, then ipso facto, it becomes racist.

In the past these things were mostly said in private and within groups who shared the same values, background etc. Now, with the internet and the exponential rise in the use of social media, it's all too easy for racist remarks to enter the public domain and for the internet community to react one way or another or both.

A recent case in the UK involved a student who responded to the near death on the soccer field of a black player who had suffered a heart attack. He was attacked for his opening remarks and then became more extreme and racist as the attacks increased.

In the end he was charged for racially aggravated behaviour and was jailed for 56 days. I don't think you go that far as yet in the US, and, indeed, legal action in such cases is in its infancy over here too, but it gives a strong indication of how seriously the authorities take it in the UK.

[robertlouis]

Example One: Jews have long noses for sniffing out money.

Example Two: Jews rightfully govern Jerusalem because the one and only King of Kings gave it to them to govern, but He forgot to give them the deed.

The former is making fun of the members of an ethno-religious group, the latter is making fun of a belief generally held by the religious members of that group.

And in my experience the best Jewish jokes I've heard expertly skewer all the stereotypes and are, of course, told by my Jewish friends.

[broncofan]

Good example Trish. I think the best justification for ridiculing the second belief is that it effects the rights of non-believers. I wouldn't only make the member-belief separation but go even further. For instance, why would I have any desire to mock a Muslim's avoidance of pork? On the other hand, what if I wanted to protest an egregious example of Sharia law being used to justify homophobia? There's nothing at stake with Muslims' avoidance of pork.

On the other hand, if we are to have a serious dialogue across faiths about whether Iran is justified in executing homosexuals, I don't think I should have to accept any tenets of a religion I don't believe in and I should be free to mock any internal inconsistency in that belief system.

[trish]

On the other hand

[broncofan]

In answer to the OP, I'd say that it becomes potentially racist the moment it's uttered in public. With all such statements it's less about the intended message and more about the response from the audience, and if it causes offence, then ipso facto, it becomes racist.

In the past these things were mostly said in private and within groups who shared the same values, background etc. Now, with the internet and the exponential rise in the use of social media, it's all too easy for racist remarks to enter the public domain and for the internet community to react one way or another or both.

A recent case in the UK involved a student who responded to the near death on the soccer field of a black player who had suffered a heart attack. He was attacked for his opening remarks and then became more extreme and racist as the attacks increased.

In the end he was charged for racially aggravated behaviour and was jailed for 56 days. I don't think you go that far as yet in the US, and, indeed, legal action in such cases is in its infancy over here too, but it gives a strong indication of how seriously the authorities take it in the UK.

I agree with everything you say here. Any single joke has the potential to offend and yet because it's a joke it probably doesn't have that intent at all. Once it's a public forum it's lost the intimacy of the joke and so it can seem more mean-spirited.

What I didn't like about that one thread is that Jewish people weren't exactly invited to play along with the joke and when offense was taken by I'd say three or four people (who knew there were so many Jewish tranny lovers) it just got uglier. Besides, I could imagine making fun of all sorts of ethnic characters of Jews with friends and yes the nose joke here as well. But on the other hand, the what's the difference between a Jew and a pizza joke, and the ashtray jokes would probably be going too far.

Also, I sort of noticed that the thread had the same author as the Jews bitch about the Holocaust all day long thread.

[robertlouis]

I agree with everything you say here. Any single joke has the potential to offend and yet because it's a joke it probably doesn't have that intent at all. Once it's a public forum it's lost the intimacy of the joke and so it can seem more mean-spirited.

What I didn't like about that one thread is that Jewish people weren't exactly invited to play along with the joke and when offense was taken by I'd say three or four people (who knew there were so many Jewish tranny lovers) it just got uglier. Besides, I could imagine making fun of all sorts of ethnic characters of Jews with friends and yes the nose joke here as well. But on the other hand, the what's the difference between a Jew and a pizza joke, and the ashtray jokes would probably be going too far.

Also, I sort of noticed that the thread had the same author as the Jews bitch about the Holocaust all day long thread.

I don't know what the intention of the OP was in the case of the "Jews Bitching" thread was, but the reaction was pretty predictable, and it all became unnecessarily heated. What I found really worrying, and I don't know if this is a generational thing, but some of the younger members seemed to think it should be ignored or forgotten.

The day we forget the holocaust is the day that we forsake our humanity.

[Yvonne183]

Example One: Jews have long noses for sniffing out money.

Example Two: Jews rightfully govern Jerusalem because the one and only King of Kings gave it to them to govern, but He forgot to give them the deed.

The former is making fun of the members of an ethno-religious group, the latter is making fun of a belief generally held by the religious members of that group.

Lol,, sorry, my blonde hair is getting in my way, I'm still confused.

I guess what I was trying to say, who makes the what is a joke and what is not. I know the owner of the site has the final say in anything, he owns the place, he can take the ball and go home and no one will ever play again. But who can really decide what is offensive and what isn't,, there is some sort of line and it can be crossed very easily. Maybe one person won't see that, but another might. There are some things said that are just bizarre but there are some borderline stuff and can be difficult to say, is it offensive, is it not offensive, all in the eye of the beholder sort of thing


This is Not directed at you Trish:
But don't let me stop the fun,, people get out there and keep the posts coming. They have been weird and bizarre from the first day I joined and I really don't see any change in the future, near or far. Someone will always find fault, someone will always be nasty, it's the theme here, so continue on with the posts.

[Yvonne183]

Oh, I just saw the spam.