When Do Ethnic Jokes Become Explicitly Racist

[broncofan]

I ask this because one can always make a joke about an ethnic group, whether it is their ethnic physical features, their stereotypical behavior or tendencies and then say they are joking and it is a matter of humor to laugh and not be angry. But at what point do jokes become unacceptably vulgar in a community? When several people pop into the thread to express offense and are mocked? Or before that?

For instance, when Ted Danson came out in blackface to joke with Whoopi Goldberg he may not have meant offense or done so with malicious intent, but a lot of people thought it was extremely inappropriate.

In one thread on this forum, Dino Velvet, who I know is a very popular member who has been here a long time, makes several jokes that I think are inappropriate. The jokes are about Jewish people and being Jewish myself I take offense and have not seen another thread with such bullying humor (that doesn't mean one doesn't exist). For instance, he makes jokes about using the sword his ancestors killed Jews with, about Jewish people being animals (and posts pictures of the animals), about Jewish stereotypes, and about being able to smell Jewish people. In the same thread, others talk about how strange it is that the Jews in a how to tell if someone is Jewish clip aren't talking about the obvious tell-tale physical features.

I know that some types of un-pc comments are going to be tolerated. But is it not going too far to liken Jewish people to animals even as a joke and to make light of Jewish people being killed? If the joke had been directed at one Jewish person he had a rapport with and was making a sarcastic comment to that would be one thing. But this seemed like an attempt to de-sensitize others to more crass comments and create a general bullying environment. I'd also like to think that it was not in any way him testing out the forum to see if he would get any backlash from posting more insidious stuff.

Anyhow, I mean this as serious stuff. The name of the thread that I find pretty bad even though it is apparently intended entirely as a joke is can you tell if someone is Jewish.

[Yvonne183]

It's not just Jewish, it seems others get hit with these jokes as well.

Check out Trish"s post in the "It's Begun" thread.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...t=67386&page=2

To some people it's a laugh while to others it might not be, it seems there are no strict rules on this forum, except for maybe jokes that are targeted to black people or muslims, then one might get banned for that.

[trish]

I apologize. I wasn't aware we were only supposed to poke fun at the pagan religious beliefs of the Carribean.

[Yvonne183]

I apologize. I wasn't aware we were only supposed to poke fun of and profit from the pagan religious beliefs of the Carribean.

I don't know what you are talking about.

I made a point that it's not just Jewish jokes that are found on this forum. There are jokes made for just about all groups of people. And it seems that people are banned for certain jokes about certain groups while others are fair game.

[broncofan]

It's not just Jewish, it seems others get hit with these jokes as well.

Check out Trish"s post in the "It's Begun" thread.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/sho...t=67386&page=2

To some people it's a laugh while to others it might not be, it seems there are no strict rules on this forum, except for maybe jokes that are targeted to black people or muslims, then one might get banned for that.

Thanks for commenting Yvonne! As someone who doesn't practice, I still understand not wanting to have your religious practices ridiculed. For instance, making a joke about the Prophet Mohammad is seen as a great offense to Muslims, and so I imagine making fun of Jesus is no less a slight to Christians.

I am sure the response is going to be, "do you want to get rid of all of the fun?" And my answer isn't yes, I'm just curious where the line drawing should be. Making jokes about atrocities? About ethnic features and hygiene? Likening ethnic groups to animals, however cute and endearing your intentions? Mocking religious deities and prophets?

And I'm not necessarily saying such comments should be censored. Any of them in fact. I just get the sense that such comments are far too popular, that people have no sense how offensive they are, and that it is often the counter-attack that wins one pariah status and not the offensive comments.

I haven't seen blacks or muslims get preferential treatment though. I'm just curious as a more general matter because I think such comments are equally unacceptable when applied to other groups.

[Yvonne183]

Thanks for commenting Yvonne! As someone who doesn't practice, I still understand not wanting to have your religious practices ridiculed. For instance, making a joke about the Prophet Mohammad is seen as a great offense to Muslims, and so I imagine making fun of Jesus is no less a slight to Christians.

I am sure the response is going to be, "do you want to get rid of all of the fun?" And my answer isn't yes, I'm just curious where the line drawing should be. Making jokes about atrocities? About ethnic features and hygiene? Mocking religious deities and prophets?

And I'm not necessarily saying such comments should be censored. Any of them in fact. I just get the sense that such comments are far too popular, that people have no sense how offensive they are, and that it is often the counter-attack that wins one pariah status and not the offensive comments.

I haven't seen blacks or muslims get preferential treatment though. I'm just curious as a more general matter because I think such comments are equally unacceptable when applied to other groups.

I agree with you Bronco. I don't want censorship either, that's the last thing I would want. I wouldn't have even commented on the other post if this thread didn't come up. I just believe if one person's ethnic/religious/ or whatever other thing they consider themselves is made fun of, then it goes all ways, everyone is open to the same. I don't mind that at all. But if one group is made fun of and it is considered hate or uncalled for then the same has to apply to all groups.

I know this is a sticky thing, who is to say when the boundary is crossed. I can't say. I just take it that this is a forum made up of mostly idiots and I take the posts as such.

[broncofan]

I agree with you Bronco. I don't want censorship either, that's the last thing I would want. I wouldn't have even commented on the other post if this thread didn't come up. I just believe if one person's ethnic/religious/ or whatever other thing they consider themselves is made fun of, then it goes all ways, everyone is open to the same. I don't mind that at all. But if one group is made fun of and it is considered hate or uncalled for then the same has to apply to all groups.

I know this is a sticky thing, who is to say when the boundary is crossed. I can't say. I just take it that this is a forum made up of mostly idiots and I take the posts as such.

Yeah I feel the same way you do too. I couldn't really get myself to fire back at someone's ethnic background when they make the comments Dino made, but I'd certainly like to be able to make personal comments to him.

BTW, I don't mind a rough and tumble brawl in any form. I just don't want to resort to attacking someone's background to have it.

[Yvonne183]

I apologize. I wasn't aware we were only supposed to poke fun at the pagan religious beliefs of the Carribean.

You talking about Voodoo? First off, Voodoo is not a sole religion of the Caribbean, it might have roots there as well as Africa but it also spread, just as Christianity spread out of the Middle East and Voodoo is from my region of the world, Louisiana, maybe called Hoodoo as well.

I have been around followers of Voodoo, been in some of their activities. I said to Dino in another thread that I won't talk on an open forum about this. I would be made fun of from most from this forum. I believe in some of the ways of Voodoo. Voodoo has some Christianity intertwined within it.

I could have had some fun talking about Voodoo but not in an insulting way, which was my point in the first post, some people will find fun in a post about others and some will find hate. The thing is, we are not all equal, certain groups seem to be off limits when it comes to making jokes while others are more open to joking. I say, everyone should say whatever one wishes, have fun, someone will find a post has crossed the line, then what? Who is the thought police?

[trish]

There is a difference between making fun of members of a group and poking fun at the beliefs of those members. IMO the latter is satire and always fair game. The former is trickier. The mods have every right to decide what face they would like these boards to present to the world. Here's a related question: Is it okay to spam the general and political forums if you got banned for offensive speech?

[Yvonne183]

There is a difference between making fun of members of a group and poking fun at the beliefs of those members. IMO the latter is satire and always fair game. The former is trickier. The mods have every right to decide what face they would like these boards to present to the world. Here's a related question: Is it okay to spam the general and political forums if you got banned for offensive speech?

I am sorry, I am confused cause I don't understand what is meant by this:

There is a difference between making fun of members of a group and poking fun at the beliefs of those members. IMO the latter is satire and always fair game.

I am not being mean, I genuinely don't understand.

As far as spamming, I'd have to say that is wrong to do, whether one is banned or not. That doesn't seem right to do that. The only thing I can say to that might have an opinion is maybe the person that got banned felt it was unfair, maybe he/she thought that others said things and didn't get banned then this might get the person angry. but spamming is wrong.