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Thread: Court rRuling on Obamacare
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06-29-2012 #101
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Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
I raised the point about car insurance -and I admit it was a weak one- because of the argument that for the first time your Federal govt was forcing US citizens to buy a product from the private sector.
In the UK our health service is paid for by a tax that is deducted at source, ie from wages -but it is first and foremost a service not a business, even if there are billions of £ circulating in the 'health industry- -what also concerns us in the UK are the policies of a coalition government that seek to dismantle the health service we have and make it more commercial, as the US health care 'industry' is perceived to be. Defenders of the UK system who have been arguing for years that the US road is one we don't want to go down on, can now argue that if anything, the US is waking up to the benefits of a European model. No system is perfect, and they all have in-built tendencies to bureaucratic muddle, but morally a service available to all that is free at the time of need is a human right, not a market choice.
As for Hanoverian Swine -is this supposed to be a reference to the Royal Family? That dynasty died in 1901 with the Queen-Empress Victoria. Her son and successor, Edward VII was the son of Albert, whose royal line passed through Saxe-Coburg und Gotha, a name that was changed to Windsor in July 1917 for obvious political reasons (just as many towns in the US and Canada named after German places were re-named).
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06-29-2012 #102
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Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
Thanks for the clarification Broncofan, although we are aware of 'state's rights' sometimes the legal arguments people make don't appear to make sense without an explanation. Perhaps health care in the US should be viewed in the same way as defence...whatever happens I suspect this issue has still some way to go even if, as The Guardian reported yesterday, John Boehner and some other House Republicans now feel they should move on to other issues.
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06-29-2012 #103
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06-29-2012 #104
Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
Salon has analysis piece that suggests that - despite yesterday's ruling - SCOTUS has now swung further to the Right with Kennedy's decision to vote with the Conservatives.
http://www.salon.com/2012/06/29/anth..._the_radicals/
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06-30-2012 #105
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06-30-2012 #106
Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
In Canada it started out as a provincial &/or state issue, as it were.
First adopted by Tommy Douglas in Saskatchewan. Until it was universally adopted by the federal government.
And, too, it's what most Americans want. If you look at polls/surveys. You can't say socialized medicine. Because that word scares us -- ha ha! ha! (And, too, health care costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in America.)
So denying Americans single-payer is really an attack on democracy, meaningful democracy....
And, too, universal health care goes against what we've been taught since infancy. Ya know, why should I care about anyone else? (In neoclassical economics you're what's defined as a: rational wealth maximizer. Ya know, no one else matters but me.
So, global warming or trashing the environment or pollution simply don't matter. Future generations don't matter. Because I'm strictly rational; I care about maximizing my own wealth. And who cares about anyone else.
So, a universal system of care and caring goes AGAINST everything we've been taught.
So an unwillingness to embrace single-payer does make sense. It's very rational. Again, why should anyone else matter but me.
But it certainly goes against what Adam Smith said: the core of being a human being is a concern for others.)
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06-30-2012 #107
Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
Traditionally, insurance was not thought to be commerce, and has been regulated at the state level. As for being forced to buy car insurance, that is done under the Police Powers that each state retained, it's a much broader power than anything granted to the federal government. So the states have always been able to mandate that you buy car insurance or health insurance, the issue here was whether Congress could do the same under it's commerce clause power. Obviously, the decision was that they could not, but that they can tax you (a distinction without too much meaning though lol).
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06-30-2012 #108
Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
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06-30-2012 #109
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- Feb 2012
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Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
American children win, Republican children lose. Roberts saves dignity of SCROTUS.
World Class Asshole
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07-01-2012 #110
Re: Court rRuling on Obamacare
You libs are a sad lot....when a conservative justice votes with the 4 predictably liberal justices, you shower him with accolades...similar to your post about the dignity. Yet when a liberal justice votes with the predictably conservative justices..................oh wait....... That never happens so we don't know quite how you'd react !! LMFAO. As Roberts said in his comments....it's up to the electorate to resolve all this. And we will. This thing was a disgrace from the sleezy vote buying to pass it to Nancy Pelosi famously suggesting we had to pass it to find out what was in it. You can't pass legislation that fundementally changes the 1/6 of the economy by ramming it through with no opposition votes....none. Not one.... it has to be consencious. It's still unpopular. Deal with that fact. It's never been about universal coverage...ever. It's about moving towards the liberal goal of government controled health care.
Now please tell me why children will be so much better off under Obama Care.
Last edited by onmyknees; 07-01-2012 at 04:18 AM.
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