What's Next To Increase Transgender Exposure To The Mainstream Cultural Lexicon

[RallyCola]

And there's no hope in the US until the Republicans drop their anti-women, anti-gay mediaeval attitudes. Their social policies belong in the dark ages. They're the Taliban in Brooks Bros suits and, lord help us, sweater vests.

well, that's american politics. you know what they say...if you are a republican before 30, you have no heart. if you are not republican after 30, you have no brain.

that said though i don't think so-called political gains will be made until social gains are made. right now, there is a tremendous amount of ignorance when it comes to understanding transgenderism so widespread social consciousness needs to change.

[Stavros]

if you are not republican after 30, you have no brain

Would you like to re-phrase that?

And not all Republicans are wannabee Taliban; and that's not me defending them, just an observation over many years.

[onmyknees]

And there's no hope in the US until the Republicans drop their anti-women, anti-gay mediaeval attitudes. Their social policies belong in the dark ages. They're the Taliban in Brooks Bros suits and, lord help us, sweater vests.

I see....thanks for that enlightenment there RL. This is hardly about politics, but you as the resident know it all from afar, should grasp that. Is it intolerant or "anti gay" as you put it to favor civil unions over same sex marriage ? If so...you'd better get a memo to Hillary and Barry because that's their take on it, but of course you coyly avoid mentioning that in your endless political jabs. Gay marriage is slowly becoming the norm because the public is moving the politicians in that direction....not the other way around. That's what makes change lasting and legitimate..Got that? I'm not inclined to arm chair quarterback from 5000 miles away and tell you about all your numerous social ills in the UK...and how you should resolve them....but if I were to indulge, I don't think I'd be trying to effect social change by telling nearly half the British citizens they're from the dark ages and comparing them to an enemy that has killed and injured thousands of US soldiers. Your comparison is outrageous and repulsive. Your approach needs some finesse. Or maybe that was your attempt at humor? Doubtful...you're not funny, but you sure do curry favor now don't you? lol Don't you find it a tad ironic seeing yourself as enlightened and tolerant while calling those who don't agree with you Taliban? Why don't you write one of those corny folk songs about that? Art can be about irony and hypocrisy ...can't it? lol Work on that and get back to me before your next hiatus. Try it sometime and you might find more of what you're looking for ( tolerance) lol

[buttslinger]

The two-party system Thrives on Anti-Gay Pro-Gay issues.Both sides make tons of money on it. Marijuana was an issue in the sixties, now, Arnold is pro-herb. Gay marriage is a HUGE jump for the transgender community.

[robertlouis]

I see....thanks for that enlightenment there RL. This is hardly about politics, but you as the resident know it all from afar, should grasp that. Is it intolerant or "anti gay" as you put it to favor civil unions over same sex marriage ? If so...you'd better get a memo to Hillary and Barry because that's their take on it, but of course you coyly avoid mentioning that in your endless political jabs. Gay marriage is slowly becoming the norm because the public is moving the politicians in that direction....not the other way around. That's what makes change lasting and legitimate..Got that? I'm not inclined to arm chair quarterback from 5000 miles away and tell you about all your numerous social ills in the UK...and how you should resolve them....but if I were to indulge, I don't think I'd be trying to effect social change by telling nearly half the British citizens they're from the dark ages and comparing them to an enemy that has killed and injured thousands of US soldiers. Your comparison is outrageous and repulsive. Your approach needs some finesse. Or maybe that was your attempt at humor? Doubtful...you're not funny, but you sure do curry favor now don't you? lol Don't you find it a tad ironic seeing yourself as enlightened and tolerant while calling those who don't agree with you Taliban? Why don't you write one of those corny folk songs about that? Art can be about irony and hypocrisy ...can't it? lol Work on that and get back to me before your next hiatus. Try it sometime and you might find more of what you're looking for ( tolerance) lol

If there is a platform for gay marriage in the US as you claim, then why are there Republican-sponsored campaigns in the few states that currently have it to have it abolished again and little apparent appetite to introduce it elsewhere? And a major party whose main mouthpieces seem to spend a great deal of time condemning gays and are also hitting on women's rights - surely they believe that there's a constituency out there prepared to vote for them or they wouldn't be peddling such a vile and yes, fundamentalist line.

And I'll remind you yet again that here in the UK it's a conservative government which is putting together the legislation to put gay marriage on the statute book. I struggle to understand how you can write compliments about the tgirls who grace these pages while at the same time actively promoting a political philosophy that would potentially close down sites like this and possibly put programmes in place to pray the gay away, whatever the f*ck that means. As for making rape victims carry their babies to full term, well, words fail me. If you're prepared to disavow the extreme pronouncements of the bigots you support, we can have a dialogue. Otherwise you have no credibility, nor do you belong here.

As long as the bigot Santorum remains an apparently credible candidate and the rest of the dwarves contending for the Republican ticket try to keep up with his primitivism that's how a large part of the US comes across right now - with attitudes better suited to the intolerant regimes that you affect to despise for their backwardness. I'm not the hypocrite here, omk, you are.

[yodajazz]

Here was an interesting way a person brought exposure to the t community. This fulltime girl, made it to ghe top 35 of a 'male idol' tv program. She sang as a girl also.



Here's one where she sings and plays.

[Stavros]

The original impetus for this thread was the argument that there could be 'forward momentum' bringing transgendered people in from the margins into the mainstream. I have expressed some scepticism about this. Maybe the forward momentum on this topic should concern the changing forms of information and communication, and whether or not we are moving into a world where entertainment and information are not just more diffused, but so diffused as to remove a centre occupying a 'mainstream'. It must depend on how people see the world of communications developing over the next ten years as today's teenagers with social networking skills I don't have create new forms of communication. Maybe this thread should be informed by people in their late teens and early 20s, as this is the next generation of entrepreneurs as well as consumers.

[yodajazz]

I see....thanks for that enlightenment there RL. This is hardly about politics, but you as the resident know it all from afar, should grasp that. Is it intolerant or "anti gay" as you put it to favor civil unions over same sex marriage ? If so...you'd better get a memo to Hillary and Barry because that's their take on it, but of course you coyly avoid mentioning that in your endless political jabs. Gay marriage is slowly becoming the norm because the public is moving the politicians in that direction....not the other way around. That's what makes change lasting and legitimate..Got that? I'm not inclined to arm chair quarterback from 5000 miles away and tell you about all your numerous social ills in the UK...and how you should resolve them....but if I were to indulge, I don't think I'd be trying to effect social change by telling nearly half the British citizens they're from the dark ages and comparing them to an enemy that has killed and injured thousands of US soldiers. Your comparison is outrageous and repulsive. Your approach needs some finesse. Or maybe that was your attempt at humor? Doubtful...you're not funny, but you sure do curry favor now don't you? lol Don't you find it a tad ironic seeing yourself as enlightened and tolerant while calling those who don't agree with you Taliban? Why don't you write one of those corny folk songs about that? Art can be about irony and hypocrisy ...can't it? lol Work on that and get back to me before your next hiatus. Try it sometime and you might find more of what you're looking for ( tolerance) lol

Yes there are paralells between the Taliban, and the fundamentalist wing, (religious right) in the US. Both say that certain ascpects of their religious texts, should be reflected in civil law. Even when those laws abridge the rights of large numbers of it's citizens. There is the legal right to practice one's religion is the US, but not if its practice, limits the rights of others. Both the Taliban, and the US Religious Right, tend to ignore (or de-emphasize), the parts of their holy texts, that teach tolerence.

I wont dispute that tolerance towards gay and transgender rights are gaining in acceptance here, with the general public. However, we know that anti gay/t feeling have been used politically to bring out Republican voters, with the goal of giving support to other issues and candidates. There exists a letter from Bush's 2004 state campaign chairman, here in Ohio, that states that. (I posted a copy of it in another thread).

So this brings me to Robert Louis's post

If there is a platform for gay marriage in the US as you claim, then why are there Republican-sponsored campaigns in the few states that currently have it to have it abolished again and little apparent appetite to introduce it elsewhere? And a major party whose main mouthpieces seem to spend a great deal of time condemning gays and are also hitting on women's rights - surely they believe that there's a constituency out there prepared to vote for them or they wouldn't be peddling such a vile and yes, fundamentalist line.

And I'll remind you yet again that here in the UK it's a conservative government which is putting together the legislation to put gay marriage on the statute book. I struggle to understand how you can write compliments about the tgirls who grace these pages while at the same time actively promoting a political philosophy that would potentially close down sites like this and possibly put programmes in place to pray the gay away, whatever the f*ck that means. As for making rape victims carry their babies to full term, well, words fail me. If you're prepared to disavow the extreme pronouncements of the bigots you support, we can have a dialogue. Otherwise you have no credibility, nor do you belong here.

As long as the bigot Santorum remains an apparently credible candidate and the rest of the dwarves contending for the Republican ticket try to keep up with his primitivism that's how a large part of the US comes across right now - with attitudes better suited to the intolerant regimes that you affect to despise for their backwardness. I'm not the hypocrite here, omk, you are.

Thanks for your post. Pointing out that UK Conservatives, are not anti gay, is a valuable point of info. Unlike some others, I see input from those outside of the US as valuable, in gaining a wider perspective.

While I have the floor, so to speak, I want to say this. I have probably have stated it here, elsewhere. From my understanding, every sura (chapter equivalent to Bible 'books") in the Koran, starts with the acknowledgement of the concept that God (Allah) is merciful, except one. Some scholar even argue, that the one that does not start with that, was not meant to be a full sura, and was probably part of another. So this is to say, that Mercy, as a principle should be an important part of one philosophy, who calls themself a Muslim. Understanding rules, is less important that the practice of the principles. This was an important part of the teachings of Jesus. Thus those who call themselves Christians, should be continually evaluating their lives, according to his teachings about Love, freeing oneself from judging others, and other such things. I see these things as part of the failings of the US Religious Right.

[robertlouis]

Yes there are paralells between the Taliban, and the fundamentalist wing, (religious right) in the US. Both say that certain ascpects of their religious texts, should be reflected in civil law. Even when those laws abridge the rights of large numbers of it's citizens. There is the legal right to practice one's religion is the US, but not if its practice, limits the rights of others. Both the Taliban, and the US Religious Right, tend to ignore (or de-emphasize), the parts of their holy texts, that teach tolerence.

I wont dispute that tolerance towards gay and transgender rights are gaining in acceptance here, with the general public. However, we know that anti gay/t feeling have been used politically to bring out Republican voters, with the goal of giving support to other issues and candidates. There exists a letter from Bush's 2004 state campaign chairman, here in Ohio, that states that. (I posted a copy of it in another thread).

So this brings me to Robert Louis's post



Thanks for your post. Pointing out that UK Conservatives, are not anti gay, is a valuable point of info. Unlike some others, I see input from those outside of the US as valuable, in gaining a wider perspective.

While I have the floor, so to speak, I want to say this. I have probably have stated it here, elsewhere. From my understanding, every sura (chapter equivalent to Bible 'books") in the Koran, starts with the acknowledgement of the concept that God (Allah) is merciful, except one. Some scholar even argue, that the one that does not start with that, was not meant to be a full sura, and was probably part of another. So this is to say, that Mercy, as a principle should be an important part of one philosophy, who calls themself a Muslim. Understanding rules, is less important that the practice of the principles. This was an important part of the teachings of Jesus. Thus those who call themselves Christians, should be continually evaluating their lives, according to his teachings about Love, freeing oneself from judging others, and other such things. I see these things as part of the failings of the US Religious Right.

Thanks for that, Yoda. I guess the most obvious parallel that I see is that both extremist muslims and the US Christian right have done exactly the same thing, in that they have taken a gospel which propounds love and brotherhood and perverted it into a doctrine of hate and fear of "the other".

I don't see that there's anything intrinsically wrong in decrying both suicide bombings which destroy innocent lives on the one hand and assassinations of those who carry out legal abortions on the other as being two sides of the same obscene coin. Having a fanatical belief that you're right can never justify such actions.

[RallyCola]

if you are not republican after 30, you have no brain

Would you like to re-phrase that?

And not all Republicans are wannabee Taliban; and that's not me defending them, just an observation over many years.

nope. that's the saying.

a republican before 30 has to heart
a non-republican after 30 has no brain.

i'm not saying i agree with that...it is just a phrase that's supposed to say that as a wide-eyed nubile youth, you should be liberal and think you can change the world, but that as you get older, you get more conservative and such.

again, though...governmental policy usually follows cultural cues, so i believe policy will remain antiquated for some time to come