17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[Ben in LA]

I don't feel sorry for him.

[trish]

Thanks to the NRA and ALEC pushing their ridiculous stand your ground laws through conservative state legislatures, more than one racist, Zimmermanesque murderer has and will continue get away with homicide after homicide.

How can responsible gun owners be so gullible? Answer: They really aren't all that responsible. Blameworthy, yes. Responsible, no.

[broncofan]

I side with the "latency" argument Robert was making on the last page. He has been under a lot of pressure. But I think what we're seeing is the effect of pressure on someone with a certain set of traits. He's insecure, resorts to violence if he thinks he can get the upper hand, pulls a gun when he feels threatened.

I have said before that I think the trial was problematic because there was very little to go on except that things seemed very wrong. There were a bunch of possible scenarios, but Zimmerman's behavior since makes the most damning ones more likely.

There's something very calculated about his lying too. I never believed that he was getting his head slammed into the concrete. Maybe he got punched in the back of the head during the grappling or his head hit the ground on his way down. But the image of someone repeatedly getting his head slammed against pavement is a compelling story. Getting your head slammed against the concrete even once might have you suffering from acute concussion I'm guessing.

But in sum, I don't feel sorry for him. He was fortunate not to be in prison for a long time.

[broncofan]

Just out of curiosity: who here knows someone who is a good liar? I know people in relationships lie about all sorts of things. But it's not that easy to break a table, threaten someone with a shotgun, then calmly tell the police a story of a hysterical woman.

People who are able to tell these sorts of lies are humongous scumbags...he not only abuses his gf but then gaslights her with a stereotype of a hysterical woman. His gf said to the police, "he knows how to play this game". I wonder how she knew he would try to spin a lie. At the least he probably told her that if she called the police he would tell them that she went crazy.

[yodajazz]

Just out of curiosity: who here knows someone who is a good liar? I know people in relationships lie about all sorts of things. But it's not that easy to break a table, threaten someone with a shotgun, then calmly tell the police a story of a hysterical woman.

People who are able to tell these sorts of lies are humongous scumbags...he not only abuses his gf but then gaslights her with a stereotype of a hysterical woman. His gf said to the police, "he knows how to play this game". I wonder how she knew he would try to spin a lie. At the least he probably told her that if she called the police he would tell them that she went crazy.

I think there was evidence of all his all his recent behavior, before the trial. He had a restraining order against him, but he also filed his on order. The reported sexual imposition with a relative, required a long period of deceptive behavior. According to her, he endeared himself with the father, in particular. I read, that a former girlfriend, said that he slapped her in the face for chewing gum. She said the he was on medication, as had been reported elsewhere. The exact diagnosis, for his med, has not been made public, or at least was not used in the trial. The major thing about the trial was that parts of his history, were excluded from the trial. Meanwhile, every bit of Martin's life, made it to the public. Martin's toxicology was admitted into trial evidence, but not Zimmerman's.

Another thing, that makes no sense to me that, that the lie told to the court about his finances earlier, was not tied his character, during the trial. It seems virtually certain to me, that his wife would have checked with him, before lying to the court about his finances. The lie was not about her finances. The lie also shows, a believe that 'I am smart enough to get away with things', (even though I am charged with manslaughter).

The state made a charge which required strong evidence of a prior state of mind.

[Ben in LA]

But in sum, I don't feel sorry for him. He was fortunate not to be in prison for a long time.

He wouldn't have been in prison too long...and I'm not referring to an early release either.

[Odelay]

Just out of curiosity: who here knows someone who is a good liar? I know people in relationships lie about all sorts of things. But it's not that easy to break a table, threaten someone with a shotgun, then calmly tell the police a story of a hysterical woman.

People who are able to tell these sorts of lies are humongous scumbags...he not only abuses his gf but then gaslights her with a stereotype of a hysterical woman. His gf said to the police, "he knows how to play this game". I wonder how she knew he would try to spin a lie. At the least he probably told her that if she called the police he would tell them that she went crazy.

M. Scott Peck, author of The Road Less Traveled, wrote a lesser known book entitled People of the Lie. In it he documents case studies of people who he has evaluated and counseled during his career as psychotherapist, some of whom were entirely convincing liars and who he diagnosed as psychotic.

I'm not saying Zimmerman is psychotic. Just answering broncofan's question on what type of people make the best liars.

[yosi]

Thanks to the NRA and ALEC pushing their ridiculous stand your ground laws through conservative state legislatures, more than one racist, Zimmermanesque murderer has and will continue get away with homicide after homicide.

How can responsible gun owners be so gullible? Answer: They really aren't all that responsible. Blameworthy, yes. Responsible, no.

A reminder: the poeples' right to have guns is more important than the poeples' right to live......................

[trish]

A reminder: the poeples' right to have guns is more important than the poeples' right to live......................

Certainly seems to be the position of lot of stand-your-grounders.

[Trilisser]

I happen to live in a country where a home owner has basically no right to defend himself with deadly force. Or where a perpetrator hit his former girlfriend with a hammer so hard that she lost consciousness. Our supreme court ruled that a hammer is not a deadly weapon.

So, I'd definitely prefer stand your ground laws here as well.