17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

[InHouston]

If it was my kid, I would feel the same way his parents do. And if I was in zimmermans spot, I would of shot him too. And if I was in treyvons spot, I would of ran my ass on home instead of turning around and attacking him.

Good point! Treyvon should have never taken off running. Zimmerman wasn't trying to rob him. All he had to say was "Hey man I live here. I'll wait for the police and we can talk this out with them", and he would still be alive. Treyvon acted like a little thug is what he did.

[giovanni_hotel]

Unfortunately, there are parts of Houston that are basically an urban warzone. Everyone of those scenarios sounds plausible to me. People get murdered in this country all the time over bullshit they didn't even try to start. Someone was just looking for someone to fuck with.

I have a sick feeling if InHouston's bro didn't leave his apartment, someone would have tried to take him out just to save face with their homies.

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life. And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

If you live in an area with active gangs, I feel for you because they really don't need a reason to bring some shit your way.

[giovanni_hotel]

You say what Trayvon should of done InHOuston because you have a piece. If Trayvon was able to legally carry, I doubt he runs either.

But from the 7-11 surveillance video, Martin looks nervous to me even being out at night in a neighborhood he's unfamiliar. No person in their right mind follows the 'authority' of some stranger who IMO looks gang affiliated in the middle of the night who's been following them for three blocks.

Just the same way you made a read on some dude who was approaching your car with his hand down his pants, Trayvon had to decide whether or not this stranger was out to do him harm, or was just a responsible, concerned adult who wanted to know what he was doing in the neighborhood.

Even the Sanford detective on this case said Zimmerman could have defused this entire situation by announcing 'I'm a member of the neighborhood watch and was curious to know who you were?', instead of telling Trayvon, 'what are you doing here,' after following him for several minutes.

[Stavros]

Contributing to thread drift....

If you 'trespass' into my home and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you attack or assault my wife or I, in or out of our home, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

If you threaten my wife or I, in person, we will attempt to move away from you to ease the situation if possible. If you pursue us, and you don't surrender on demand, you will die.

Oh, and yes... my property is worth much more to me than your life is. Remember that if you try to take it.

I have pulled my gun with intent three times in 20 years. 12 years ago, 7 years ago and Tuesday night.

Tuesday night, I was involved in a near miss traffic incident. Both sides partially at fault... him for speeding and my left turn was in an area with partially obstructed vision. Neither vehicle was damaged, just both of us shook up.

After pulling off the road to clear traffic, I got out to check on the other car and driver. He came running down the road toward me, screaming and cussing at me and swinging what turned out to be a socket wrench at me.

When I pulled my gun, it was just amazing how quickly he calmed down. Suddenly, his 23yo 'tough guy punk' attitude in front of his friends didn't mean as much. Fortunately, there were several witnesses to the entire incident. When the deputy showed up, took the witness statements and such, she told the other driver that he was lucky he wasn't shot and asked me if I wished to press charges.

Guns are not the problem.

--

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence? If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

It is the lack of respect for human life that you exhibit which I find disturbing; there are many ways of arresting someone suspected of a crime, announcing in advance your intention to murder someone doesn't sound like self-defence to me. Would you replace a Beware of the Dog sign with a One More Step and You Are Dead?

As for Zimmerman, as I said before, whats the point of having a Neighbourhood Watch volunteer if he doesn't know the neighbours?

[zulusierra]

Just a reflection from far away, but if this thread with all the endless speculation is in any way representative, it's hard to see how anyone in this situation can get a fair trial. Jury selection could go on for weeks.

You are correct.

And if they do happen to find a jury pool that has truly not heard anything about the case, that does not say much for the jury. It would basically mean the individual neither reads or keeps abreast of current events. (Unless they have been out of the country or "living off the grid").

[InHouston]

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

It's certainly not JUST guns. America for whatever reasons is more violent than some other countries but guns a huge factor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dan-...b_1209967.html

"Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent , yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation. But, before you begin yelling for even tighter gun laws, compare this to the annual American bloodbath.http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...es?INTCMP=SRCH"

In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. But, that figure is small compared to accidental shooting deaths which brings the annual total to more than 30,000.


Cowboys.

Cowboys? It's the thug culture that has taken over in this country. You seem to forget that we border Mexico where cartels are delivering tons of drugs and distributing those drugs all over this nation. And the post-pubescent minority brats in our society are more than happy to help them out for quick cash. There is a major crime epidemic in this country and it is not because of guns. It is because of drugs, and the thug culture who embraces the idea that going to prison is a badge of honor, and the more violent you are, the more upward-mobile you will be in your local gang.

That’s the reality Seanchai. The black and Hispanic community is causing these problems in in the working class communities of America. They know it, and they’ll never admit it. Every time someone stands up to them, the minority community flings out the “race card”, when they’re the ones causing and exasperating the problem.

I like black people. In fact, my wife and I were at our neighbor’s eating crawfish with black neighbors of ours last night. We had no problems, and we enjoyed their company, because they work for a living. One is a nurse, and one is a waitress. They hate what they’re own people are doing, and were bitching about it for hours on end.

Now, call it what you will. All I sat and listened to for hours from these black neighbors of mine who cooked 100 pounds of crawfish, was those black people complaining endlessly about “All the stupid niggas around here who don’t know how to act.” And it’s fucking true. They don’t, and they do it daily.

They’re words, from black people, and from them … not mine. That’s the reality. I watch them every day, going up and down the streets and in our local stores, acting fucking stupid, bobbing around, lipping off to people, starting shit, car-jacking and robbing people in their homes, and all the stupid liberals stand up and say “It’s the man”. Bullshit!

We didn’t do shit to them. They’re always fucking with everyone around them, and starting altercations with people, talking shit, acting like complete assholes everywhere they go, shooting at cops on a daily basis now, and somehow it’s the white communities’ fault.

That’s their fucking problem.

One day, I awoke at 8:00 am to find a black guy lurking around in my backyard. He wanted to break in, but my bars, unbeknownst to him, saved his life. He was about to hop my fence and break into my neighbor’s house behind me; an elderly black couple with no guns and no way to defend themselves. I cracked 5 gunshots over his head and sent him off running. I went to my neighbor’s house behind me and told him what happened. He’s black, and a retired engineer and he asked me quote unquote, “Let me ask you a question. Was it one of those stupid-ass niggers down the street in those Section-8 apartments?”

It is what it is.

Don’t believe me? Listen to the litany of complaints from their own people.

[InHouston]

Now you notice, in Chris Rock's audience, no one is getting angry and most of them are black and laughing and agreeing with them. They know what they're people are doing to this country.

[InHouston]

Unfortunately, there are parts of Houston that are basically an urban warzone. Everyone of those scenarios sounds plausible to me. People get murdered in this country all the time over bullshit they didn't even try to start. Someone was just looking for someone to fuck with.

I have a sick feeling if InHouston's bro didn't leave his apartment, someone would have tried to take him out just to save face with their homies.

But all those situations I can sympathize with InHouston even though I don't own a gun. A mature gun owner first uses his firearm as a DETERRENT to prevent greater violence, they don't start blazing then try to figure out what happened after the fact.

I don't like the way theoryman keeps saying '...., you will die,' like he doesn't give a fuck about the possibility of taking another human life. And there are some things hypothetically I wouldn't draw on someone over, or shoot to kill. In every instance 'my property' isn't worth a human life. I would say rarely if ever.

If you live in an area with active gangs, I feel for you because they really don't need a reason to bring some shit your way.

My property is worth more than a human life for one reason and one reason alone. They value my property over my life, and will kill me so I don't testify against them for my wallet. Therefore, you don't mean shit to me. If you're going to shoot my family and I for our property, and I will gladly kill, pile the bodies in the grass, and wash the blood stains off my driveway while the police are showing up.

Criminals in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

[zulusierra]

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence? If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

I understand why you would think this was,but no.

Between taking weapons carry classes taught by my local Sheriffs Dept., and serving 4 years in the Marines, I learned one of the most important responsibilities of being armed is having a plan in advance. There is no way to train otherwise. Do you really want un-trained people (such as Zimmerman) running around with no idea how they should react in a situation making judgments on pure adrenaline?

In a high-stress situation it's good to be able to fall back on training and "muscle memory". Basically, if you make the decision to be armed, you owe it to yourself and the rest of society to consider any situations that might arise and how you should react beforehand.

I also don't think you have very much understanding of firearms if you think you can just "disable" someone. You either use deadly force or you don't. Period. It's not like the movies. It's not as easy as James Bond makes it look.

[giovanni_hotel]

My property is worth more than a human life for one reason and one reason alone. They value my property over my life, and will kill me so I don't testify against them for my wallet. Therefore, you don't mean shit to me. If you're going to shoot my family and I for our property, and I will gladly kill, pile the bodies in the grass, and wash the blood stains off my driveway while the police are showing up.

Criminals in this country have lost their god-damned minds.

If it's that bad where you live, you should try to relocate. You sound pathological.

And it's a shame that you associate criminal behavior with RACE or ETHNICITY, and don't take any other factors into consideration, such as education, environment and socioeconomic background.

Any Black person who wholesale trashes ALL Black people by not making any distinction and uses racial epithets on top of it all, I wouldn't quote as speaking for truth in the Black community.


Be specific so you don't sound like a racist. Unless you don't give a fuck.
There is a criminal underclass in the Black/Hispanic/ and OMG the White community as well.

If you live in a major metropolitan area, the former two groups probably affect you more.

And Chris Rock is criticizing and element within the Black community, he's not generalizing ALL Black people, which is what you do InHouston by being too non-specific.