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  1. #1
    Platinum Poster BeardedOne's Avatar
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    Default Never Forget. Never Again.

    George Takei, probably best known for his role as Sulu in the Star Trek television and film series, makes a habit of posting upbeat and often funny comments, photos, and links on his blog and Facebook feeds. Some days he posts several things that bring a smile.

    Today is different. Last night he gave a head's up to his friends and fans that he'd only be making a single, yet very important post today. Some, who have known and followed him over the years knew or could guess what his post may be about.

    As I expected, George posted a brief message and link to remember the 70th anniversary of the signing of the Executive Order that created the Japanese internment camps during World War II. While Germany was rounding up people and putting them in camps, the United States was quietly doing the same. Arresting Japanese Americans, entire families, and holding them without charge or trial, for no other reason than the fact that they were of the same race as those that bombed Pearl Harbor. Many of them were US citizens, born and raised in the United States.

    It was a shameful moment in our history, one that disturbingly few Americans know of or recall, and one that we seem to be trying to repeat.

    Here is a link to a brief PSA by George Takei where he mentions his years in two of those camps. He also speaks of a not-for-profit theatre project that will tell the story in the hopes that we will never forget and never again treat our citizens in such a way.

    http://www.allegiancemusical.com/vid...et-never-again


    Last edited by BeardedOne; 02-19-2012 at 08:45 PM.
    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

  2. #2
    Platinum Poster BeardedOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    For those interested in the original boilerplate:

    Executive Order No. 9066

    The President

    Executive Order

    Authorizing the Secretary of War to Prescribe Military Areas

    Whereas the successful prosecution of the war requires every possible protection against espionage and against sabotage to national-defense material, national-defense premises, and national-defense utilities as defined in Section 4, Act of April 20, 1918, 40 Stat. 533, as amended by the Act of November 30, 1940, 54 Stat. 1220, and the Act of August 21, 1941, 55 Stat. 655 (U.S.C., Title 50, Sec. 104);

    Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas.

    I hereby further authorize and direct the Secretary of War and the said Military Commanders to take such other steps as he or the appropriate Military Commander may deem advisable to enforce compliance with the restrictions applicable to each Military area hereinabove authorized to be designated, including the use of Federal troops and other Federal Agencies, with authority to accept assistance of state and local agencies.

    I hereby further authorize and direct all Executive Departments, independent establishments and other Federal Agencies, to assist the Secretary of War or the said Military Commanders in carrying out this Executive Order, including the furnishing of medical aid, hospitalization, food, clothing, transportation, use of land, shelter, and other supplies, equipment, utilities, facilities, and services.

    This order shall not be construed as modifying or limiting in any way the authority heretofore granted under Executive Order No. 8972, dated December 12, 1941, nor shall it be construed as limiting or modifying the duty and responsibility of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with respect to the investigation of alleged acts of sabotage or the duty and responsibility of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, prescribing regulations for the conduct and control of alien enemies, except as such duty and responsibility is superseded by the designation of military areas hereunder.

    Franklin D. Roosevelt

    The White House,

    February 19, 1942.

    [F.R. Doc. 42–1563; Filed, February 21, 1942; 12:51 p.m.]


    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    thats sucks an were americans and we are so pose to be better than that.


    Once you tried a She/Cock you Want more.

  4. #4
    Veteran Poster Niccolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    The American government was NOT "doing the same" as the Nazis, and it's intellectually and morally dishonest to claim that they were.

    Most people forget, or have never even been taught, that the Nazis oppressed their own people for many years, and the "final solution" came at the end of a long, dark road.

    Remember Sophie Scholl and The White Rose!



  5. #5
    Platinum Poster BeardedOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    Granted 'the same thing' is relative here. I understand that what the Nazis did was long coming and far more tragic. It's still a matter of herding your own citizens into camps without any due process, no matter the reasoning behind it.


    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

  6. #6
    Veteran Poster Niccolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    "Granted 'the same thing' is relative here." -TBO.

    Moral relativism? Please.

    They were either "doing the same thing" or they were not.

    And - obviously - the assertion that the Americans were "doing the same" as the Nazis is FALSE.

    The American policy may be deserving of criticism. However, as I said, it is intellectually and morally dishonest to equate the American policy during WWII to that of the Nazis.

    If the American policy really is worthy of criticism, or even outright condemnation, then it should be possible to criticize or condemn it without resorting to such methods. If you can't criticise the policy for what it actually was, rather than claim it was like something else and criticize it on the basis of what it clearly was not, then the policy couldn't have been as bad as you're trying to make out - if you see the point I'm making.

    Btw have you ever seen the movie about Sophie Scholl? Incredibly powerful. I defy anyone to watch it and not have a tear in their eye by the end of the movie. An exceptionally brilliant performance by Julia Jentsch.


    Last edited by Niccolo; 02-19-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  7. #7
    Silver Poster Merkurie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    Its a matter of standing by while your neighbors are rounded up and sent to god knows where.

    I do not think the Germans knew their Jewish neighbors were going to be exterminated. They were told that the Jews were being taken to the East for re-settlement.

    The issue is whether you will stand by, as people who are not quite like you are rounded up and shipped away to an unknown fate.



  8. #8
    Veteran Poster Niccolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    The issue is that judgement is being passed here and now, by people who do know what the fate of the many people, Germans too remember, who were shipped off to camps of one sort or another throughout the reign of Hitler's gang.

    And those who would pass judgement on America know perfectly well - or they ought to know - that the Americans were not "doing the same thing" as the Nazis.

    Isn't that so?

    If you have any doubts about how morally equivalent America is with the third reich, then I suggest you visit Auschwitz, or the Holocaust Exhibition in the IWM.

    The point I tried to make earlier is that if the American policy was so wrong, it should be possible to criticise it without likening it to something else. Just stand it up and look closely at it, and say what's wrong with it. Should be easy enough, if it was all that bad.

    And btw what you're saying in your post reminds me more of the Soviets - I had a flashback to the time I spent years ago reading Solzhenitsyn - and that's just as valid a comparison, if you want to make one. Interesting how people tend not to equate evil with the soviet empire nowadays, though anyone who's read The Gulag Archipelago will know how evil and heartless it was. Talk about being rounded up and shipped away to an unknown fate ... the Soviets went as far as any empire has ever gone in that regard. The numbers are simply staggering.



  9. #9
    Veteran Poster Caff_Racer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merkurie View Post
    I do not think the Germans knew their Jewish neighbors were going to be exterminated. They were told that the Jews were being taken to the East for re-settlement.


    I disagree entirely. That is one of the arguments that I have heard time and time again in the mouths of Revisionists (by this I don't intend to imply that you yourself are a Revisionist, by the way). It is just possible - just - that, right at the very beginning of the Nazi policy on Jews, some of the denser Germans might have been ignorant of the fate reserved for the Jews, and might have blithely believed whatever crap line the government was feeding them. But past that initial moment, it is naive and, in my view, hypocritical, to believe that the German population was generally unaware of government policy on Jews.


    Fork 'andles

  10. #10
    Senior Member Platinum Poster Prospero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Never Forget. Never Again.

    Cooler heads needed here. The US internment of its Japanese citizens during WW2 was, surely, a shameful event and something that does need to be highlighted from time to time. (and the parallels with Guantanamo are interesting. Special rendition to places like Syria are still more shameful.)

    But to draw a parallel with what happened in Nazi Germany - reaching its crescendo with the Final Solution - only diminishes thinking about the experience of Japanese Americans. it was bad. it was wrong. But these two things really do belong in different categories. The distinction between a genocidal project and an aberrant act of a stunned nation at war should be kept distinct.



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