De-Evolution is Alive and Well!

[trish]

chefmike wrote:

Scientists have discovered fossils of a 375 million-year-old fish, a large scaly creature not seen before, that they say is a long-sought "missing link" in the evolution of some fishes from water to a life walking on four limbs on land.

In addition to confirming elements of a major transition in evolution, the fossils are widely seen by scientists as a powerful rebuttal to religious creationists, who hold a literal biblical view on the origins and development of life.

It is an exciting discovery that promises to teach us quite a bit about the vertibrate transition from water to land; but i hardly think yet another rebuttal of creationist doctrine is required. Since it dropped out of the running as a serious hypothesis over a century ago, most biologists feel no need to refute creationism. What is required is a strategy that would allow the general public to reconcile their religious beliefs with scientific knowledge. i confess, i don't have one. i usually wind up claiming irritably that creationism is less than a theory, it's a fantasy.

[chefmike]

Unholy shit! It's even goin' on across the pond!

Pupils 'confused by science lessons in creationism'
by LAURA CLARK, Daily Mail

07:57am 11th April 2006

Leading scientists have launched an unprecedented attack on the teaching of creationist theories in Tony Blair's flagship academies.
Britain's most prestigious scientific body, the Royal Society, said children were being confused by the teaching of the Bible's creation story in science lessons.

It follows a recent revival in creationist thinking, most notably in three schools supported by multi-millionaire car dealer and evangelical Christian Sir Peter Vardy.

In a statement issued today, the Royal Society defends Darwin's theory of evolution as the best explanation for life on earth.

It accuses the Government of failing in its duty to ensure pupils at state schools, including the academies, learn the value of genuine science.

The society says: "Science has proved enormously successful in advancing our understanding of the world, and young people are entitled to learn about scientific knowledge, including evolution.

"Young people are poorly served by deliberate attempts to withhold, distort or misrepresent scientific knowledge and understanding in order to promote particular religious beliefs."

Sir Peter's charitable trust runs Emmanuel College in Gateshead, the King's Academy, Middlesbrough and Trinity Academy, Doncaster. A fourth school is in the pipeline.

Nigel McQuoid, director of schools at the Emmanuel Foundation, has said he believes the earth was created by God in six days.

A recent Channel 4 documentary showed former students at Emmanuel College saying that although they were taught the theory of evolution, teachers made no attempt to hide their bias towards creationism.

Other developments which have prompted the society's statement include the revelation that a new national science syllabus invites teachers to discuss creationist theories in GCSE lessons. Exams set by the OCR examination board - one of the main three in England - could require students to outline ideas which contradict evolution.

American advocates of the creationist off-shoot 'intelligent design' - which says nature is so complex that only an intelligent force could have made it - have also been attempting to promote their ideas in Britain.

Ministers, meanwhile, insist that creationism is not part of the school curriculum.

And the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, said recently that the creation story was not worth teaching alongside the modern theory of evolution. He stated that classroom work should include the Bible only when 'discussing what creation means'.

However, the Royal Society is concerned that confusion remains. Its vice-president, Professor David Read, said it was 'timely' for the body to publish a 'clear statement' on creationism.

"There have been a number of media reports, particularly relating to an academy in North-East England, which have highlighted some confusion among young people, parents, teachers and scientists about how our education system allows the promotion of creationist beliefs in relation to scientific knowledge.

"Our Government is pursuing a flexible education system, but it should also be able to ensure and demonstrate that young people in maintained schools or academies are not taught that the scientific evidence supports creationism and intelligent design in the way that it supports evolution."

[chefmike]

I always suspected that Satan was behind the evolutionists and their propaganda...

Creationist descends on Britain to take debate on evolution into the classroom

By Sarah Cassidy, Education Correspondent
Published: 21 April 2006
A leading creationist who claims to use science to prove the Bible's version of how the Earth was made begins a controversial tour of Britain today.

John Mackay, an Australian geologist who believes he has uncovered fossil evidence which dismisses evolution and proves that Noah's flood really did happen will speak at several state schools and universities during his eight-week visit to the UK.

His visit has provoked anger among educationalists who are concerned about what they see as an increasing focus by evangelists on children.

They fear creationism - which rejects Darwin's theory of natural selection and insists that God created the world in six days - is becoming an increasingly accepted view in Britain's classrooms and lecture halls.

Mr Mackay will address meetings at St Andrews, Bangor and Northampton universities and plans to give presentations at a number of secondary schools, including most controversially one on the Fylde coast in Lancashire where he will give a series of talks over three days.

The visits have already sparked controversy with teaching unions, scientists and secular groups rushing to condemn the exposure of a captive audience of children to his views.

It follows a statement from scientists issued by the Royal Society arguing that creationism has no place in schools. It says pupils must understand that scientific evidence supports the theory of evolution.

Steve Jones, the award-winning geneticist and author, argued that suggesting that creationism and evolution be given equal weight in education was "rather like starting genetics lectures by discussing the theory that babies are brought by storks".

As its supporters have become more vocal, creationism has become an increasingly contentious subject in the UK. The Archbishop of Canterbury recently warned that creationism should not be taught in schools, and the National Union of Teachers last week demanded new laws to prevent the teaching of creationism in science lessons.

Organisers of the trip declined to reveal the name and exact location of the Lancashire school on Mr Mackay's speaking tour, citing the need to protect staff and pupils from unwelcome attention.

One worried local resident said to the Blackpool Citizen: "Why is the location being kept secret? Why are parents, teachers and governors not being informed? Why is a man whose background cannot be verified being given three-day access to a secondary school?"

Keith Porteous Wood, executive director of the National Secular Society said he was appalled that Mr Mackay would be lecturing at the school.

"Giving a creationist three days to indoctrinate a captive audience of pupils is verging on intellectual child abuse," he said. "Who else but someone bent on brainwashing their pupils would invite a creationist to... for three days without any balancing scientist?

"If I were a parent I would be calling for a new headteacher.

"Adults can make up their own minds whether they want to embrace science or anti-science, but where children are concerned we must be absolutely clear that creationism will not be presented to them as an alternative to real science.

"Evolution has a mile-high stack of evidence to support it, creationism has only wishful thinking."

Mr Mackay's organisation, Creation Research, says it "exists to seek evidence for the biblical account of creation" and that it has already discovered proof in the earth's crust.

Mr Mackay, who has a geology degree, has conducted digs around the world where he has excavated fossils which he claims prove that the Bible was literal truth.

His website argues that the theory of evolution was introduced by Satan and that the idea has already undermined Western society and must not be allowed to spread to the Third World.

"Satan has only recently begun introducing evolution to Third World countries in order to destroy missionary enterprise," it states. "Let's get in first with our spiritual armour on and provide Third World missionaries and others with the weapons to do battle against the subtleties of Satan as he seeks to undermine confidence in God's Word and missionary enterprise."

Mr Mackay's trip will also include two debates with academics, who will argue against his ideas. Jeff Ollerton, lecturer in ecology specialising in plant evolution at Northampton University, who will debate with Mr Mackay, said he had sympathy with those who felt that creationists should not be given a platform, but as a scientist he felt obliged to expose the falsity of the creationists' argument.

"My position is that anyone is allowed to believe whatever they want," he said. "If they want to believe the earth is flat or that it's 10,000 years old or that life was created in six days that's up to them. But it's not just a matter of their personal beliefs. They are people who are trying to influence government policy and influence the school curriculum."

Randall Hardy, Mr Mackay's spokesman in the UK, expressed dismay that leading critics of creationism, such as the zoologist Richard Dawkins, had refused invitations to debate the issue.

"These people are not just scientists, they are atheists," he said. "Their arguments do not come from pure science but from their interpretation of the evidence in order to back their beliefs."

A science teacher who claims that fossils back the Bible

John Mackay converted to Christianity when he was an undergraduate at the University of Queensland.

His UK spokesman, Randall Hardy, says: "He was converted by reading a book on geology written by an atheist which made particular fun of the biblical position. From this, he started reading the Bible and was totally convinced by it."

Mr Mackay, who is in his late 50s, taught science in state and private schools in Queensland as well as lecturing in geology to higher education students at technical colleges.

He was a founder of Creation Science Foundation in Brisbane and a director of CSF until 1987 when he resigned and established his own creationist organisation, Creation Research, also based in Brisbane. His organisation is not linked to any denomination and is funded solely by public donations.

For more than 30 years Mr Mackay has travelled the world excavating fossils on digs in the US, Britain, Europe, the Caribbean, New Zealand, Australia, Pacific islands and Asia. The expeditions were looking for evidence for creation, Noah's flood and the Tower of Babel.

He believes he and his supporters have discovered evidence that proves that these were real events rather than biblical allegories.

Mr Mackay has just finished tours of Canada and the US.

Answering the big questions

1 HOW DID LIFE ON EARTH DEVELOP?

Creationists say:

Refer to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Creationists believe that the Bible is the literal truth and the written word of God. They believe the account of origins presented in Genesis is a simple but factual presentation of actual events. Thus they believe that the world was created in six days by God.

Evolutionists say:

All life on earth originated by natural processes, which can be explained by science, and that all speciesdeveloped from simpler forms by natural selection. Evolution is a change in traits of living organisms over generations. The modern understanding of evolution is based on the theory of natural selection, set out in 1859 by Charles Darwin, above, in The Origin of Species, .

2 HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?

Creationists say:

If you add up the dates in Genesis, Adam was created between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. Hence the Earth is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old.

Evolutionists say:

The whole universe and life itself arose by chance billions of years ago. The Big Bang theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe, which claims the universe was created between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion.

3 WHAT DO FOSSILS TELL US?

Creationists say:

The fossil record provides no proof of the evolution of different species. There is a continuing lack of evidence for evolution despite an enormous number of fossils.

Evolutionists say:

Fossil evidence supports the common descent hypothesis: that different species have developed from a common root. The fossil record allows us to trace the history of a species showing how it has changed over time.


http://education.independent.co.uk/n...icle359111.ece

[trish]

Sarah Cassidy in the article above summarizes some of the beliefs of Creationists and "Evolutionists". According to her

Creationists say:

Refer to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Creationists believe that the Bible is the literal truth and the written word of God. They believe the account of origins presented in Genesis is a simple but factual presentation of actual events. Thus they believe that the world was created in six days by God.

i wonder which of the two versions of creation to be found in Genesis is literally true; the one where Eve is formed from Adam's rib or the other one?

Also according to Cassidy

Evolutionists say:

All life on earth originated by natural processes, which can be explained by science, and that all speciesdeveloped from simpler forms by natural selection. Evolution is a change in traits of living organisms over generations. The modern understanding of evolution is based on the theory of natural selection, set out in 1859 by Charles Darwin, above, in The Origin of Species, .

Most scientists will admit that many of the chemical and physical processes leading to the development of life on Earth will never be understood in detail. Though there is hope that we will eventually have a broad general understanding of life's origins. I recommend Christain de Duve's book Live Evolving.

Cassidy also reports

Mr Mackay, who has a geology degree, has conducted digs around the world where he has excavated fossils which he claims prove that the Bible was literal truth.

His website argues that the theory of evolution was introduced by Satan and that the idea has already undermined Western society and must not be allowed to spread to the Third World.

Gee...i knew the idea of evolution predated Darwin, but I never heard of this Satan dude. Odd he's not credited in the text books.

[chefmike]

Meanwhile, back on this side of the pond...

See You in Bible Class
Georgia plans to teach the Good Book in schools.


By Sarah Childress
Newsweek
May 1, 2006 issue - Fresh from a bruising federal court fight over the teaching of evolution, Georgia marched back into the culture wars last week when Gov. Sonny Perdue signed a bill allowing Bible classes in public high schools. An estimated 8 percent of the nation's schools offer some form of Bible study. But the Georgia law is the first to set statewide guidelines and earmark public dollars for a Bible course. Five other states are considering similar measures. Georgia's school board has until February 2007 to decide how the courses should be taught, and forces on both sides of the issue are bracing for a messy battle.

the rest of this article here-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12440797/site/newsweek/

[Trogdor]

It's like when the white men first set foot on the americas.

Might as well go make one big state out of the south, they all vote togather like that anyways, frm georgia, up to around tennesee and called the whole thing either Dixxie or Jesusland.

[SkankyTrannyAnna]

I'm atheist and absolutely reject the Big Bang Theory as nonsense. That's just another form of creationism for scientists. The notion that the entire universe was packed into an area smaller than an atom is as absurd as the notion of a god creating the earth in seven days.

Is it absurd like how those tiny dots in the night sky are balls of gas about 1,300,000 times the size of the earth? Is it absurd like how the flat ground under your feet is actually a sphere which people are stood upright on the opposite side of? Is it absurd like how the sun and moon are not the same size? Is it absurd like how a whale and a fish aren't the same kind of animal. Is it absurd like how actually a whale and fish actually are the same kind of animal, but so is a giraffe?

Argument from incredulity is one of the poorest arguments ever.

Simple fact is, reality and common sense are more likely to be at odds with each other than not.

[BBaggins06]

Yeah, it's almost as absurd as reanimating a 5 year old thread where the majority of posters left long ago. Chef Mike, where art thou?