Are we some superior being's science project?

[BigDF]

Watching things unfold over the last few years I keep getting this spooky feeling that this might be another experiment by a superior being who keeps trying to come up with the right formula for success, however that may be defined. Given the theory of evolution and granting that I've never studied much about it, it seems like there have been several attempts to make something of this world and us. There are a lot of people out there expecting the world to end at some point in this decade and frankly I'm beginning to wonder about it myself. Anyone else having any thoughts along those lines?

[trish]

More likely we're some cosmic old biddy's house cats. She's pretty much checked out and we've got the run of the place.

[Stavros]

Watching things unfold over the last few years I keep getting this spooky feeling that this might be another experiment by a superior being who keeps trying to come up with the right formula for success, however that may be defined. Given the theory of evolution and granting that I've never studied much about it, it seems like there have been several attempts to make something of this world and us. There are a lot of people out there expecting the world to end at some point in this decade and frankly I'm beginning to wonder about it myself. Anyone else having any thoughts along those lines?

Setting to one side Trish's preference for cats over dogs, rabbits, goldfish, budgeriegars, and of course Parrots, I think you are wrong. In the 1960s at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis there was a rash of pop songs on the end of the world (Eve of Destruction, for example, see below); the Doomsday scenario has been with us since -well, doomsday, which after all for many people has been and gone. In the long term, the impact of climate change will be the issue that endures long after the 'Islamic threat' has gone the way of FARC, the IRA, ETA and the Black Panthers. It is, after all, about the world you live in.

[BigDF]

Oh, I'm sure I'm wrong about that and many other things as well. I was born in 1957 and I remember much of the 60's very well. There is a big debate in this country about religion that pretty much boils down to the Bible's version of how the world was created vs the theory of evolution. My thoughts on the debate are that if you look past the religious connection, the Bible can be thought of as a history book written by early man trying to come to grips with horrible natural disasters and wars. If you follow the evolution theory, there is no written record of what came before man.On the other hand, the idea that this was all created at once seems impossible given how much has been discovered about what the place was like before we got here.

My thoughts along this line are that before we showed up there were attempts to create this world by what we would consider a superior being, that perhaps did not satisfy the being. Sitting here at 2 AM trying to express this is very difficult. Any way, thank you Trish and Stavros for your replies.

[Stavros]

Like a lot of people in this country I am puzzled by the obsession that so many Americans have with religious explanations for life on earth -for many here 'Grand Design' is accepted as part of the religious beliefs of both monotheists and polytheists, but it doesn't work its way into politics in the way that it does there -Tony Blair's press spokesman Alastair Campbell when asked about Blair's religion said We don't do God.

Biblical studies has been a fascinating, but deeply controversial subject for centuries, because so much is believed to be at stake, but it might be better to stand back and view the texts that comprise the Bible as records of their times, as you have suggested; rather than as the literal word of God, which is nonsense. Like Greek Myths, people have needed to create a narrative of who we are, be it in cave paintings or eventually in written script; why we are the only species to be reflective in this way is also part of the debate about Creationism versus evolution. Although the Bible is concerned -mostly but not exclusively- with monotheism, there is a lot of evidence that across the ancient Middle East as in Greece, Asia, America, and Africa, people believed in many Gods, and that their perception of all life on earth as a single whole meant that earthly phenomenon such as the weather were perceived to be expressions of godly powers, powers beyond the control of humans. In Ancient Israel the god Yahweh had a wife, called Asherah, although she seems to have been erased from much of Jewish history -she was a fetility goddess, as most female deities have been and if you want to be purist about it, the notorious fruit of the forbidden tree is never actually named, and some believe Eve ate an olive not an apple, and that because the chronology of the bible is wrong, it is wrong to assume Adam and Eve were the first humans. And so on.

You say there is no written record of life before man, but that doesn't mean there is no record -the history of the American continent can be reconstructed from geology, biology and so on, and you can believe that it is all part of God's Grand Design or just an evolutionary fact which needs no further explanation.

Ultimately, it is about what you believe to be true, whether it is mainstream religion or no religion at all, if it comforts you to think there is a God what follows is part of your narrative, your explanation, and your experience of life. And even if there is a God, it doesn't follow as a necessary fact that God made the Earth; so the debate in the USA that sets Creationism against Evolution should be a pointless debate. Evolutionary science can prove how life developed and continues to develop, it can be used to confirm there is a God, it is used by some to prove there isn't one: there are too many unanswerable questions, but no lack of people convinced that they have the answers. Those who then seek to impose those answers on you, on me, and everyone else to my mind are obsessed and don't need to be. It has to be about personal choice.

[Prospero]

Funny I was tempted to post "Eve of Destruction" for entirely other reasons the other day.

[Stavros]

Funny I was tempted to post "Eve of Destruction" for entirely other reasons the other day.

Why?

[Bobby Domino]

"The End of the World" is something mankind has always grappled with and has overcome at every "attempt.". There are critical ebbs and flows throughout humanity where we have come close to the "edge" - the transition of civilizations, epidemics & plagues, and all-out wars.

I think humanity was closer to destruction during the end of the Greek, Persian, Roman civilizations in the West; the change in Chinese dynasties in the East; The Black Plague; Christian & Muslim imperialism in Europe & Africa; the colonization of Africa, South & North America & Australia; the Slave Trade; the desolation of Native Americans & 1st Nation peoples & Aboriginals; World War I & II, among many other tragedies & genocides. It all depends on what side you're on. The losing side definitely thought it was the end of the world and for some, they were right.

Since the end of the Cold War we are pretty safe. The amount of hijackings and urban bombings are nowhere near what they were in the '70's & '80's. The fact that America is now a target is the only thing that's changed. I don't see the termination of our existence other than an extra-terrestrial involvement.

[Stavros]

Bobby, I think your arguments would be dealt with by evolution on the basis that as humans have adapted to the environments in which they/we have lived, so we have been able to develop the technology to reduce or in some cases eliminate threats to life, particularly illness and disease, although there are people who interpret outbreaks of disease or natural disasters as 'punishment from God' -I understand Pat Robertson blamed the fires in Florida some years ago on the impact of gay people on the state -not very scientific but an explanation that at least says something about Mr Robinson, if not Florida.

There is also an argument that because we have through science created technological alternatives to evolution, humans have actually stopped evolving -our brains and our bodies will never change, possibly because we now use machines to do so much for us. And, with the destructive power of chemicals and other technologies, as well as greed and excess, we may actually be destroying rather than evolving the planet....
What BigDf is interested to know is whether or not there is an absolute power -God if you like- who created Earth but maybe lost control of it; or is playing a moral game, testing people as it were.

[BluegrassCat]

There is also an argument that because we have through science created technological alternatives to evolution, humans have actually stopped evolving -our brains and our bodies will never change, possibly because we now use machines to do so much for us.

As long as there is differential reproduction, and there certainly is now, evolution will continue. It may not fit the layman's term of evolution meaning progress, but changes in allelic frequencies in populations will most definitely continue for the foreseeable future. Even if we know who is reproducing the most today, we probably won't understand the evolutionary implications for quite some time.