Puzzled...

[Jamie Michelle]

I think domestic spying is a good thing. If you don't have anything to hide, then why is it a big deal if you are spied on by the government? Did anyone see that movie Dirty Bomb? Domestic spying could stop things like that.

Chef... I'm never hateful or vindictive... I only defend myself. It is really that simple.

The government doesn't spy on you to protect you from terrorism, since it's the government which intentionally manufactures terrorism in order to obtain more funding, power, and control. Rather, the government spies on you (i.e., on the masses) to protect itself *from* you (i.e., from the masses rising up against the ruling elite). Terrorism is simply an ancient tool used by governments throughout history to keep their subject populations in line.

More than four times the amount of non-combatants have been systematically murdered for purely ideological reasons by their own governments within the past century than were killed in that same time-span from wars. From 1900 to 1923, various Turkish regimes killed from 3,500,000 to over 4,300,000 of its own Armenians, Greeks, Nestorians, and other Christians. Communist governments have murdered over 110 million of their own subjects since 1917. And Germany committed genocide against some 16 million people--6 million of them Jews. (The preceding figures are from Prof. Rudolph Joseph Rummel's website at http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/ .) Over 800,000 Christian Tutsis in Rwanda were hacked to death with machetes between April and July of 1994 by the Hutu-led military force after the Tutsis had been disarmed by governmental decree in the early 1990s, of which disarmament decree the United Nations helped to enforce. On several occasions, United Nations soldiers stationed in Rwanda actually handed over helpless Tutsi Christians under their protection to members of the Hutu military. They then stood by as their screaming charges were unceremoniously hacked to pieces. This massacre happened one year after the United Nations helped to put in a national ID card in Rwanda, and it was that very national ID card system which the Hutus used to track-down and identify the Christian Tutsis. Needless to say, all of the subject populations of the above mass murders had been disarmed beforehand.

All totaled, neither the private-sector crime which government is largely responsible for promoting and causing or even the wars committed by governments upon the subjects of other governments come anywhere close to the crimes government is directly responsible for committing against its own citizens--certainly not in amount of numbers. Without a doubt, the most dangerous presence to ever exist throughout history has always been the people's very own government.

That, Vicki Richter, is why it is "a big deal if you are spied on by the government." Having the government spy on you would be akin to letting Jeffrey Dahmer spy on you, expect far worse, as no Jeffrey Dahmer-type serial killer has ever been able to rack up anywhere near the amount of murders that governments have against their own populations. At most, a Jeffrey Dahmer-type serial killer can only murder about a hundred people--and that's at the very high end of the scale. Whereas governments have been able to murderously slaughter many tens of millions of their own non-combatant populations for purely ideological reasons just within the past century.

For more on the above, see the below articles written by me:

"Documentation on Government-Staged Terrorism," September 30, 2005:

http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewtopi...ibertyandtruth

The below two articles by me (published under my legal name) were originally published at Anti-State.com:

"Government Causes the Crime" by James Redford, c. October 2001:

http://www.geocities.com/vonchloride/govcause.html

I should mention one thing about the above article by me which might be confusing nowadays. I wrote the article in October of 2001 when the 9/11 death toll was being reported as around 7,000 people, which is the figure I mention in my said article. Now the 9/11 death toll is reported as being close to 3,000 people.

"Jesus Is an Anarchist," James Redford, revised and expanded edition, November 9, 2005:

http://www.geocities.com/vonchloride...hist-jesus.pdf

[mbf]

I think domestic spying is a good thing. If you don't have anything to hide, then why is it a big deal if you are spied on by the government?

well the problem is: it is not you who decides what is "something to hide", its them. and it could be anything, like the fact you ip-adress can be connected to this forum. and an overzealous person working for the government might draw unfavourable conclusions.

besides: domestic spying doesnt prevent acts of terror or heavy crime. criminals are not foolish, they know that they r spied on already and simply find other means to hide their true intentions.

[The American Nightmare]

I think domestic spying is a good thing. If you don't have anything to hide, then why is it a big deal if you are spied on by the government?

Because the way this administration is carrying it out is illegal.

Furthermore, the war on terror has been nothing but a joke. At least once a month you'll catch breaking news of a subway station/grocery store/busy highway/etc. being evacuated due to a "non-specific" threat. When has anything ever happened? Has a bomb ever been found? Has an attack been prevented? I'm not aware of anything good coming out of all the time wasted.

No, usually it's >> deadly terrorist, Cat Stevens << or a >> soda bottle bomb! <<

Won't someone please think of the children???