Amanda Knox and the Murder Mystery

[robertlouis]

Anybody who wants to find out more about the way that the Italian justice system does (or just as often, does not) operate, should read the book The Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi.

By anatomising the judiciary's handling of a particularly gruesome series of murders committed over a period of years in the Florence area, it picks out all the shortcomings and opportunities for corruption that the system offers. Eight men have been accused in four separate trials and subsequently acquitted, and the authors themselves must have come too close to the truth as both of them have been variously pursued by the authorities for everything ranging from contempt to actual involvement in the murders.

It won't help anyone to solve the tortuous mess that the Kercher trial has become, but it will tell you almost all you need to know about the Italian justice system and a lot about Italian society besides. And it reads like a thriller.

[hippifried]

Does the Italian system work?

[arnie666]

Anybody who wants to find out more about the way that the Italian justice system does (or just as often, does not) operate, should read the book The Monster of Florence by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi.

By anatomising the judiciary's handling of a particularly gruesome series of murders committed over a period of years in the Florence area, it picks out all the shortcomings and opportunities for corruption that the system offers. Eight men have been accused in four separate trials and subsequently acquitted, and the authors themselves must have come too close to the truth as both of them have been variously pursued by the authorities for everything ranging from contempt to actual involvement in the murders.

It won't help anyone to solve the tortuous mess that the Kercher trial has become, but it will tell you almost all you need to know about the Italian justice system and a lot about Italian society besides. And it reads like a thriller.

Might have known you would take the murdering psychos side

[Stavros]

I don't doubt that the police in Florence made a mess of the Monster case, but one of the original points about my post, was that incompetence is part of the cultural interpretation of the case in Perugia -there is a general view that the Italian state is so badly run and so corrupt that justice cannot be achieved in a court of law.

But this is the same country that has locked up hundreds of Mafiosi over the last 10 to 15 years, that has persuaded the pentiti to break the omerta to smash one family after another -ok it hasn't destroyed the sistema, but Italian law does sometimes work.

If the police in the UK were better maybe we would have a point, but I can think of a few cases where the accused signed confessions after being beaten up by the cops; where a policewoman was used to seduce a suspect who was then charged with a murder he didn't commit, and so on and so on. It isn't the police or even the prosecution who are at fault in Perugia -there are three people, Rudy Guede, Raffaelle Sollecito and Amanda Knox, and one two or all three of them have not told the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[tsdvdman]

I hate to bring race into it but it is obvious. Another young white girl gets off for murder because of her looks and because of the pressure from the American media..who refused to cover the guilty aspects of the crime. She lied on an innocent black man..another black man got 30 years..yet she and her boyfriend walk scott free..WOW!!

[Stavros]

I accept that it is 'convenient' that the sole person now convicted of the murder is Black, as in 'non-Italian' except he is Italian by nationality, but he has not denied he was in the house and had sold dope to the guitarist in the basement flat which Knox, Sollecito and Kercher had been in, possibly all at the same time.

However, the prosecution failed to convince the judges that their dna evidence and the circumstantial evidence did not leave room for doubt: the police's gathering of evidence was incompetent and sloppy -it often is and not just in Italy- and their questioning of Knox without a lawyer was a gift to the defence. No murder weapon has been produced, they still don't know if one knife or two were used, and yet the prosecution claims to have 10,000 pages of evidence to convict, but failed to get the basics right.

The doubt was enough; it doesn't conclusively resolve the issues, and I don't doubt there will be a further appeal in January, but I don't see any more mileage in this for the prosecution unless they can produce conclusive proof that Knox and Sollecito were involved.

[Dino Velvet]

I accept that it is 'convenient' that the sole person now convicted of the murder is Black, as in 'non-Italian' except he is Italian by nationality, but he has not denied he was in the house and had sold dope to the guitarist in the basement flat which Knox, Sollecito and Kercher had been in, possibly all at the same time.

However, the prosecution failed to convince the judges that their dna evidence and the circumstantial evidence did not leave room for doubt: the police's gathering of evidence was incompetent and sloppy -it often is and not just in Italy- and their questioning of Knox without a lawyer was a gift to the defence. No murder weapon has been produced, they still don't know if one knife or two were used, and yet the prosecution claims to have 10,000 pages of evidence to convict, but failed to get the basics right.

The doubt was enough; it doesn't conclusively resolve the issues, and I don't doubt there will be a further appeal in January, but I don't see any more mileage in this for the prosecution unless they can produce conclusive proof that Knox and Sollecito were involved.

I have a couple questions.

I think I heard in Italy a defendant is not protected against Double Jeopardy. Is this true?

Is she still on the hook for fees payable to the Italian gov't?

[Ben]

Hopefully she writes a book.... And makes a million bucks -- I mean, getting into trouble w/ the law and becoming a millionaire is the American Dream --

[Stavros]

I have a couple questions.
I think I heard in Italy a defendant is not protected against Double Jeopardy. Is this true?
Is she still on the hook for fees payable to the Italian gov't?

Dino, the case has not been closed -the appeal decision will be clarified by the Court over the next 90 days, at the end of which the Prosecution can appeal against the decision in Rome. If they win, then Knox would presumably have to return to prison, and Italy would ask for her to be extradited.

As for the money, having her conviction quashed means she is entitled to 500,000 Euros; however she was found guilty of slandering Patrick Lumumba for which the fine is 21,921 Euros.

Under the Italian legal system, the weakest evidence is produced at appeal, apparently one of the reasons why Italy has one of the smallest prison populations in Europe. What the strongest evidence consists of, I do not know, its an odd system, but in the end, all of the cases -the guilty who go free, the innocent who are imprisoned- stand and fall by the evidence presented in Court, and that is never all of the evidence that exists.

[Dino Velvet]

I have a couple questions.
I think I heard in Italy a defendant is not protected against Double Jeopardy. Is this true?
Is she still on the hook for fees payable to the Italian gov't?

Dino, the case has not been closed -the appeal decision will be clarified by the Court over the next 90 days, at the end of which the Prosecution can appeal against the decision in Rome. If they win, then Knox would presumably have to return to prison, and Italy would ask for her to be extradited.

As for the money, having her conviction quashed means she is entitled to 500,000 Euros; however she was found guilty of slandering Patrick Lumumba for which the fine is 21,921 Euros.

Under the Italian legal system, the weakest evidence is produced at appeal, apparently one of the reasons why Italy has one of the smallest prison populations in Europe. What the strongest evidence consists of, I do not know, its an odd system, but in the end, all of the cases -the guilty who go free, the innocent who are imprisoned- stand and fall by the evidence presented in Court, and that is never all of the evidence that exists.

Thanks. It's hard enough keeping up with the laws and cases just in California alone. Your information was very helpful. Thanks again.