Capitalism with no Government

[fred41]

Trish is right.
And, too, how many people would actually support a private police force? Private fire department? And how would a private police force work? And, too, as Trish points out about roads: who will build them? I mean, why would, say, Microsoft build roads in, say, Conway, Arkansas??? How does that maximize their return on investment?????? Why would Coca-Cola build a bridge in, say, Wilson County, Tennessee.... How does that improve their net income????

...as was pointed out before, most of these particular jobs are handled by state or local taxes...not the federal government (though some of them are federally subsidized).

entirely missed the point there well done

so youre against private undustry advertising? isnt it your duty as a good capitalist to not through away the ads but instead study them and buy their stuff?

Private industry can advertise any legally available way they want. I suppose if there were no government mail service they would probably hire someone to deliver the ads to your house (which they do anyway with newspaper inserts and throwaways). However..the internet is slowly making much of this unnecessary.
I don't believe any point was missed since capitalists don't have a "duty" to buy anything.

...but he can speak for himself...I just happened to come across it.

[trish]

Too many, what shows up in your mail box? Everything I get goes directly in the recycle bin. Were loosing $5 billion every year just to receive junk mail and advertisements. Privatize and actually create revenue to the treasury.

Private business market via the mail system because it's effective. Otherwise they would pay to have those high gloss catalogs and flyers delivered. The rate for business is the cheapest; i.e. private business rely on government subsidy through mail delivery. If you think every small town has a newpaper that will deliver those flyers, think again, this isn't the 1970's anymore. Newspapers are a thing of the past. But people do order goods from businesses overline all the time. Businesses do business with businesses overline and depend on overland services to deliver the goods. But Fed Ex and other private delivery services to not deliver in every town in the U.S. Not even close. Fed Ex and others often drop their packages in the mail to complete the last leg of the trip. The Post Office could demand more to deliver a package and make a profit, but WE are the government. That would be like charging yourself to drive yourself to work in the morning. The Post Office provides a needed service, it is not a for profit business.

Soldiers are...

Responsibility of the Feds, God bless the men and women who are brave enough to serve.

Agreed. And it is a government job, that deservedly is rewarded with a government pension and benefits.

Policemen are...

Responsibility of the state, its why we pay property taxes.

There is no reason for the federal government to spend money at the levels they are currently doing.

Texas disagrees. They want more federal money to support State policing of the border. Let's say your right though, that we could return to 2007 levels of Federal spending on local police. That doesn't prove your original thesis that government can't and doesn't create jobs. The fact is, State and local police need some amount of Federal dollars to effectively do their jobs.

How many constructins workers are required....

Oh, you mean the ones with 1 guy working and 4 watching? One of the biggest waste of monies we have. Block grant the funds, turn it over to the states, and restrict it to the private sector.

That's just mean spirited bullshit and I wager any one of those workers does more work in a day than you do in a year. Bridges are falling down all over the country because we aren't paying to maintain them. Damns are being neglected. Remember New Orleans? The electrical grid requires restructuring. The maintaining and updating infrastructure is the most important we can do to advance our nation, our economy and stay ahead of the competition.

Its so damn ridiculous to think that we "must" continue giving money away like we are.

Spending money to advance your own infrastructure is not throwing money away. It is growing the nation and the economy. Austerity is stagnation, falling behind and preferring to live in the past.

Again, fundamental difference of opinions. Liberals want the federal government to be the Nanny of all. Conservatives want the government to operate within its means,

This is just a stupid and false cartoon characterization of two political philosophies. But the fact is that a growing, economically sound nation, like any large corporation, will always pay ahead for reasonably certain future returns. Those that don't die away.

To sum up, you claimed back on page 6 that

I do not believe government can create jobs.

. I then pointed out all the ways that government can and does create jobs. Your recent post does nothing to refute this demonstration. Instead your position has mutated. It's not that you believe that government can create jobs. You concede that it can. Rather, it would seem, that you and the GOP believes that government shouldn't create jobs and that you and the GOP are more than willing to see people go without than compromise that principle.

[Faldur]

They want more federal money to support State policing of the border.

Border security should fall under the federal governments responsibility. Its part of the nations defense.

Let's say your right though, that we could return to 2007 levels of Federal spending on local police.

The federal government has no business spending tax monies on state police/fire.

thats just mean spirited bullshit and I wager any one of those workers does more work in a day than you do in a year.

I have been in the construction industry for over 35 years, 20 years of which I have been an employer in the industry. I know production, organization and sweetie what you see in government road work is none of the above.

Bridges are falling down all over the country because we aren't paying to maintain them.

Ok, I have to admit you made me laugh like hell with that one. Can you name ONE bridge that has fallen down due to lack of maintenance in the last 10 years? The last 30 years? How about the last 100 years? It has never happened..

[trish]

So why are you so interested in what is State and what is Federal responsibility? Your original contention makes no such distinction. You merely claimed government cannot create jobs. You were wrong. You simply believe government shouldn't create jobs. It seems you would rather make fun of people who do real work, then see government help put more people to work.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0803/p01s05-usgn.html

[giovanni_hotel]

No, they are using the best legal system available to them. But why should the taxpayers continue to subsidize this system? $5.1 billion dollars last year. If the private sector were doing the job of the US Postal service 574,000 jobs would begin to pay taxes to the treasury, rather than draining.

The delivery cost would go up, but it would be the option of the consumer if they want to pay for it. And the government would save $5 billion along with receiving tax revenues from the delivery employees. A win/win in my book.

The USPS is NOT funded by the Federal government. They are a self sustaining federal business that funds itself with its own revenue.

Tell me why is it that conservatives wrote and passed legislation in 2006 that required the USPS to fund 75 years of retirement/pension liabilities in TEN years????
That means the USPS is required to pay out liabilities to employees who haven't been hired yet.


No federal or private corporation is under such restrictions.
The goal in passing this legislation was clear; to destroy the USPS.

The fucked up part is the majority of Americans are not even aware of this law because of the spin in the media that the USPS is out of step with a technological shift in how mail is sent, and a slew of private competitors who are more efficient.


The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006(PAEA) is responsible for 100 percent of the $20 billion in debt the USPS now faces.

Why is the Fed's most successful business being forced by a deliberate legislative gambit to go bankrupt???

Why is it that conservatives hate of anything associated with the federal government, primarily its most successful programs, are targeted by right wingers for destruction??

This is why I always repeat the refrain, it is SUICIDE for this country to put those individuals who most HATE the Federal government, in charge of it.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...e-save-itself/

[Faldur]

The USPS is NOT funded by the Federal government. They are a self sustaining federal business that funds itself with its own revenue.

Oh, that makes me feel a lot better. But tell me, with a 2011 net revenue of
-$5.1 billion where does the money come from? Do they have a savings account they withdraw it from?

[giovanni_hotel]

The postal service believe it or not actually makes money from selling stamps, shipping fees and mailbox rentals.

[Ben]

A sane form of capitalism:

[fivekatz]

Certainly at this point US capitalists could not live without their corporate welfare, whether it be in the form of radical overpayment of such things a pharmaceuticals, military products, privatitzation with unholy mark up (prisons) and the final insurance for unfettered greed fueled by blatant risk (CDO's).

This is to say nothing of the massive military the government maintains to insure that any region or nation that threatens to nationalize the US capitalists interests, that our military will step in and protect American (business) interests).

The nuisance fines the capitalists pay for fraud, poisioning the environment and violations of the laws of the land and those of higher authority are just considered business costs.

For all their whining Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump and the rest of the one percent would be up poop creek without the safety net that is government. They just resent the distraction that having a safety net for the poor and elderly presents to the primary mission of watching out for their assess.

[Ben]

Certainly at this point US capitalists could not live without their corporate welfare, whether it be in the form of radical overpayment of such things a pharmaceuticals, military products, privatitzation with unholy mark up (prisons) and the final insurance for unfettered greed fueled by blatant risk (CDO's).

This is to say nothing of the massive military the government maintains to insure that any region or nation that threatens to nationalize the US capitalists interests, that our military will step in and protect American (business) interests).

The nuisance fines the capitalists pay for fraud, poisioning the environment and violations of the laws of the land and those of higher authority are just considered business costs.

For all their whining Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump and the rest of the one percent would be up poop creek without the safety net that is government. They just resent the distraction that having a safety net for the poor and elderly presents to the primary mission of watching out for their assess.

Yeah, the likes of Trump and others love big government -- for themselves. Not for, say, the elderly widow down the street. Ya know, she should be subject to market discipline. (We should also note that something like copyright is government intervention in the market. Actually, corporations themselves are government creations.
Anyway, corporations have captured government and are using it to serve their parochial interests.
The corporate sector loathes something like social democracy. Which MEANS: working people taking control of the state to serve their interests. Meaning they'd institute policies that serve them. That'd be a proper/functioning/meaningful democracy. I mean, we certainly have elections but do we have actual democracy? No. Of course not.)