Capitalism with no Government

[Stavros]

Russtafa, I think for some people the State is a menace, an obstacle to freedom; for others it is a glorified form of community. Hobbes developed his theory of a 'wise' or rational leader in control of a state with absolute powers as a result of his personal experience of the revolutionary wars during which he was forced out of the country. But his famous description of anarchy which he called a 'state of nature' in which people were constantly warring with each other and in which life was 'poor, nasty, brutish and short' was not wholly right. When left to their own devices, humans form communities in which rules or a sort are created -it is true of the Bedouin, the 'Aboriginals' of Australia, and crime families for that matter. At least if you have a state with an elected government you can choose; none of Melbourne's residents chose the Moran's, for example. Your choice.

[russtafa]

I find it funny that a lot of so called rebels of society if given power become very dictorial and want no freedom for others

[Ben]

I find it funny that a lot of so called rebels of society if given power become very dictorial and want no freedom for others

That's the very nature of government: to concentrate power. It doesn't matter who it is. There's no such thing as a magnanimous leader.
That's why the Founding Fathers set up different branches of government. They wanted checks and balances. Because they were fearful of a dictatorship.
And so it is the natural inclination of any government actor, if ya like, to concentrate power. Whether it be Bush Jr. or Obama. The tendency is to consolidate power.
And, too, governments are not benevolent institutions. They serve power systems. And the dominant power system in America is transnational corporations.
Everyone knows this. I hope -- ha ha ha!

[russtafa]

That's the very nature of government: to concentrate power. It doesn't matter who it is. There's no such thing as a magnanimous leader.
That's why the Founding Fathers set up different branches of government. They wanted checks and balances. Because they were fearful of a dictatorship.
And so it is the natural inclination of any government actor, if ya like, to concentrate power. Whether it be Bush Jr. or Obama. The tendency is to consolidate power.
And, too, governments are not benevolent institutions. They serve power systems. And the dominant power system in America is transnational corporations.
Everyone knows this. I hope -- ha ha ha!

well if you had a socialist system with cooperation with the big corps you would have a fascist government

[hippifried]

It's all about pooling resources.

I see capitalism as a form of privatized socialism with a very narrow scope. It's not the be all & end all. It just pools finance. It has absolutely nothing to do with benevolence.

[russtafa]

when has anything to do with humans been benevolence?

[hippifried]

Society itself is benevolence by it's general nature. We became social critters to pool our resources & elevate our species from the status of prey animal.

[Ben]

well if you had a socialist system with cooperation with the big corps you would have a fascist government

Mussolini coined the term fascism. It's when government power and corporate power merge and become one.
The noted American author and essayist Gore Vidal said: we live in a society [and system] whereby it's socialism for the rich (think: bank bailouts and bailing out insurance companies... which is antithetical to capitalism) and free enterprise for everyone else.
And, russtafa, you mentioned benevolence. Well, people, by and large, are benevolent, are kind and caring. They are also moral and decent. But the corporate culture, I'd argue, tries to drive this out of people's heads.
It starts from infancy and through school and TV. You know, you are the only person that matters. (Now, granted, at some level you have to be selfish. Everyone understands this.) So, the culture, a corporate/materialist/consumerist culture, focuses on maximizing one's own gain... and who cares about anyone else.
Now corporations are required by law to do exactly that. People aren't. I think people have to, well, rediscover their humanity, their decency, their morality. In spite of the wider culture that tries to SUPPRESS these deeply human impulses.
The iconic George Carlin sums up everything:

[russtafa]

America is so far removed from socialist system that they might as well be in a different world

[robertlouis]

America is so far removed from socialist system that they might as well be in a different world

Couldn't agree more. When they call Obama's programme "socialist" it's utterly meaningless.