what went wrong in the UK and how do they fix it

[arnie666]

Sir David Starkey has an interesting perspective,which of course is being shouted down by the delusional on the left. Putting words in his mouth, deliberately misinterpreting what he said , evening calling him racist. It is funny and sad at the same time, that the left in the UK call those who think certain subjects are stifled in the media delusional and conspiracy theorists ,when we see the reaction to starkeys actually quite tame comments.

If anything , Starkey was insulting those whites who emulate a subculture in the black community, and I have heard many black people mock them.Just for background starkey is a history held in high regard who has written these books

This Land of England (1985) (with David Souden)
The Reign of Henry VIII: Personalities and Politics (1986)
Revolution Reassessed: Revisions in the History of Tudor Government and Administration (1986) (Editor with Christopher Coleman)
The English Court from the Wars of the Roses to the Civil War (1987)
Rivals in Power: the Lives and Letters of the Great Tudor Dynasties (1990)
Henry VIII: A European Court in England (1991)
The Inventory of Henry VIII: The Transcript, Volume 1 (199 (with Philip Ward and Alistair Hawkyard)
Elizabeth: Apprenticeship (2000) (published in North America as Elizabeth: The struggle for the throne)
The Stuart Courts - Foreword (2000) (Edited by Eveline Cruickshanks)
The Inventory of Henry VIII: Essays and Illustrations, Volume 2, (2002) (with Philip Ward and Alistair Hawkyard)
The Inventory of Henry VIII: Essays and Illustrations, Volume 3, (2002) (with Philip Ward and Alistair Hawkyard)
The Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII (2003)
Elizabeth I: The Exhibition Catalogue (2003)
The Books of King Henry VIII and His Wives - Introduction and Preface (2004) (James P. Carley)
The Monarchy of England: The Beginnings (2004)
Monarchy: From the Middle Ages to Modernity (2006)
Making History: Antiquaries in Britain, 1707-2007 - Introduction (2007) (Edited by Sarah McCarthy, Bernard Nurse, and David Gaimster)
Henry: Virtuous Prince (200
Introduction to Henry VIII; Man & Monarch (Susan Doran, ed. published by the British Library, 2009)
Crown and Country (Harper Press, 2010)
Introduction to Fatal Colours: Towton 1461 - England's Most Brutal Battle by George Goodwin (2011)

and produced these tv series for the BBC

enry VIII (1998, revised 2001)
Elizabeth (2000)
The Six Wives of Henry VIII (2001)
Edward and Mary: The Unknown Tudors (2002)
David Starkey: Reinventing the Royals (2002)
Monarchy by David Starkey (2004–2007)
The Tudors (2007–2010) technical advisor
Henry VIII: The Mind of a Tyrant (2009)
Kate and William: Romance and the Royals (2011)

His career might well not be over ,as some are saying because he happens to be openly Gay , he might get some slack from the liberal establishment.

[russtafa]

he might breez thru but the politically correct brigade are very tough

[Stavros]

Arnie, Starkey has a handle on plain, narrative history, mostly of the establishment, and to some extent he is good at it. But publishing a lot of books doesn't give him any elevated position, his interpretation of English history is narrative driven, and aimed at a non-intellectual audience for whom themes and structures would be too hard to comprehend. Yes, he can tell a story, but outside of history, he is an old-fashioned English conservative who, when provoked (as he was on the tv) reveals his ignorance of contemporary slang -most of which is American not Jamaican patois. I used to work with some Jamaicans and don't recognise their patois in contemporary slang, but when it comes to things like 'fed' for the police, for example, caps on backwards, silly 'gangsta' finger-salutes, hoods and baggy trousers -its all American. You might want to ask why someone with such a rich knowledge of English history seems ignorant (deliberatetly so) of the history of the English riot. When the Bishop's Palace in Bristol was burned to the ground in 1831 where were the 'blacks'? Or indeed, any minority. Again, Starkey offers no historical or contemporary view on the gap between rich and poor, the complex, if threatening sub-cultures of the poor, the criminal underworld, immigrant communities.

He just came across as another frustrated Tory who articulates his rage by denigrating people he doesn't understand. However, I think his career on tv may be over, but thats probably because he has run out of things to say. Unfortunately for him, I had the experience of lecturers in history far superior to him, but they never made it to the tv. Also, some historians who are brilliant in print, make terrible presenters on tv, and vice versa: EP Thompson's The Making of the English Working Class is a classic in its field, but he was a useless lecturer and public speaker, no notes, rambling all over the place. Niall Ferguson, by contrast, is a smooth operator on tv, but his tv history -viz Civilisation- is risible in its historical inaccuracies and shameless bias. And so on. I think its time to get over the looting, and focus on the severe discrepancy in wealth between the top and bottom and, increasingly, the 'squeezed middle' of people in work but earning less than £50,000 a year. That's where the real narrative is.

[russtafa]

Arnie, Starkey has a handle on plain, narrative history, mostly of the establishment, and to some extent he is good at it. But publishing a lot of books doesn't give him any elevated position, his interpretation of English history is narrative driven, and aimed at a non-intellectual audience for whom themes and structures would be too hard to comprehend. Yes, he can tell a story, but outside of history, he is an old-fashioned English conservative who, when provoked (as he was on the tv) reveals his ignorance of contemporary slang -most of which is American not Jamaican patois. I used to work with some Jamaicans and don't recognise their patois in contemporary slang, but when it comes to things like 'fed' for the police, for example, caps on backwards, silly 'gangsta' finger-salutes, hoods and baggy trousers -its all American. You might want to ask why someone with such a rich knowledge of English history seems ignorant (deliberatetly so) of the history of the English riot. When the Bishop's Palace in Bristol was burned to the ground in 1831 where were the 'blacks'? Or indeed, any minority. Again, Starkey offers no historical or contemporary view on the gap between rich and poor, the complex, if threatening sub-cultures of the poor, the criminal underworld, immigrant communities.

He just came across as another frustrated Tory who articulates his rage by denigrating people he doesn't understand. However, I think his career on tv may be over, but thats probably because he has run out of things to say. Unfortunately for him, I had the experience of lecturers in history far superior to him, but they never made it to the tv. Also, some historians who are brilliant in print, make terrible presenters on tv, and vice versa: EP Thompson's The Making of the English Working Class is a classic in its field, but he was a useless lecturer and public speaker, no notes, rambling all over the place. Niall Ferguson, by contrast, is a smooth operator on tv, but his tv history -viz Civilisation- is risible in its historical inaccuracies and shameless bias. And so on. I think its time to get over the looting, and focus on the severe discrepancy in wealth between the top and bottom and, increasingly, the 'squeezed middle' of people in work but earning less than £50,000 a year. That's where the real narrative is.

see what i mean.It's about crime and that's it nothing else .if i was young in the UK and knew i could get away theft it would be very tempting to grab a new flat screen and that's what it was all about

[Stavros]

Yes, the looting itself was a straightforward smash and grab campaign; but there were also two major stores that were burned to the ground with people living in apartments above them so in a few cases, plus the individuals who were attacked and died, it was more serious than just looting. The problem is that once you link crime and politics you get into difficult areas: the policy on crime, and then the links between crime and politicians. As it was put in The Wire: follow the drugs and you end up in the projects; follow the money and you end up in City Hall....

[russtafa]

what about the dole office? apparently a book store was in the middle of a block of shops and it was left untouched and how come in a lot of countries this teen crime does not happen should we send psychologist's to the middle east or India,Ethiopia,or Asia and tell them it should lol.You kids third world countries should riot

[Yvonne183]

How to fix it????? Well the UK riots were quite large, not very easy to cover up. But for those small wilding/flash mob type riots just do as they do in Baltimore, don't report about it. Just make sure your local papers cover up any wrong doing and no one will know it ever happened. That's what the Baltimore Sun does, it doesn't print on unruly mobs, unless they absolutely have too.

[Stavros]

But for those small wilding/flash mob type riots just do as they do in Baltimore

We have something occasional here called 'steaming',where a small group of about five youths will burst through an underground carriage grabbing everything they can: bags, necklaces, mobile phones: they do it just as a train is pulling into a station so they can burst through and then out onto the platform and away. I have never been near it but then I don't live in London anyway.

Yvonne, I was put off Baltimore because of The Wire, or should I go visit next time I am in the USA?

[Yvonne183]

But for those small wilding/flash mob type riots just do as they do in Baltimore

We have something occasional here called 'steaming',where a small group of about five youths will burst through an underground carriage grabbing everything they can: bags, necklaces, mobile phones: they do it just as a train is pulling into a station so they can burst through and then out onto the platform and away. I have never been near it but then I don't live in London anyway.

Yvonne, I was put off Baltimore because of The Wire, or should I go visit next time I am in the USA?

Since I like you so much I'd say yes, you should most definitely visit Baltimore. lol

Don't get me wrong, there are good things about Baltimore but it's the bad that everyone remembers and it's the bad that brings harm or death.

West and East Baltimore are just like the Wire. It really really sucks there. And decent people who try and help with the police are murdered or their homes firebombed. There was a big campaign from the bad guys telling how they will kill snitches, they even made a video.

There was someone who was recently going to testify in court and this person was murdered before the trail, and the Key Stone Cops of Baltimore said they didn't think there was a link with the person murdered and the trial, ha. The police here are probably, well not probably but much more hapless as the London cops.

But if you visit Baltimore, the odds are you probably won't go into the really bad areas, maybe you can go to Pigtown, it's not too bad, it's safe enough to see despair and not get hurt, I use to live near there. Then again there isn't much to do or see in the bad areas, it's just decay and crime. Hell, there ain't much to do in other parts either,, baseball/football,, otherwise it's quite boring here. It's not like NYC, not much foot traffic on the streets at night, people get around in cars mostly.

[russtafa]

Since I like you so much I'd say yes, you should most definitely visit Baltimore. lol

Don't get me wrong, there are good things about Baltimore but it's the bad that everyone remembers and it's the bad that brings harm or death.

West and East Baltimore are just like the Wire. It really really sucks there. And decent people who try and help with the police are murdered or their homes firebombed. There was a big campaign from the bad guys telling how they will kill snitches, they even made a video.

There was someone who was recently going to testify in court and this person was murdered before the trail, and the Key Stone Cops of Baltimore said they didn't think there was a link with the person murdered and the trial, ha. The police here are probably, well not probably but much more hapless as the London cops.

But if you visit Baltimore, the odds are you probably won't go into the really bad areas, maybe you can go to Pigtown, it's not too bad, it's safe enough to see despair and not get hurt, I use to live near there. Then again there isn't much to do or see in the bad areas, it's just decay and crime. Hell, there ain't much to do in other parts either,, baseball/football,, otherwise it's quite boring here. It's not like NYC, not much foot traffic on the streets at night, people get around in cars mostly.

maybe if you told NATO that Gadafi was residing there they would bomb it lol