Bloody Football!

[robertlouis]

The premiership is now just a two-horse race between the Manchester clubs.

Discuss.

[Stavros]

If this is indeed the case, why is it?

In the case of Manchester United, the argument will be based on the institutional development of the club, from its apparently benign owners, to the front and backroom staff who, one assumes, have been as enduring as the famous manager. What may not be apparent is the quality of the backroom staff, who must provide daily support to mostly young men whose minds, when not on the game, are focused on potentially destructive modes of behaviour. I seem to recall that Ferguson imposed a ban on Ryan Giggs giving interviews to the press for years. His dominant, possibly dictatorial character suggests this may be the best way to run a dressing room, but even a manager can't control what happens on the field of play, and while Ferguson has signed some useless players over the years, he has on the other hand recruited some outstanding players, creating strong defence, midfield and attacking formations -most people agree that the current weaknesses in United are the lack of a midfield bandmaster, and an ageing defence. But like Arsenal, they have well-established structures, just as Liverpool used to have, and it is noticeable that amongst Liverpool's many problems, the chaos in the boardroom of recent years has been damaging to the club.

Is it unfair to argue that City have bought their way to success? Initially this may have been true, but over the last few years I think the players have gelled as a team, and that the strengths of the defence and midfield are well-balanced with a formidable attacking force; the players seem now to understand each others strengths and will challenge United to the last minute of the last day. Unless discipline deserts them -Tevez seems to have mellowed in recent years, but Balotelli seems incapable of discipline, and Aguero wants to leave. In spite of this success, they have failed miserably in the premier European competition.

Both clubs are in the top quartile of European clubs, but are they as good as Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter, and AC Milan?

There was a time when Liverpool were the masters of Europe -it is possible that the teams fielded in the 1970s and 1980s were amongst the best teams ever assembled, anywhere -the eviction of this team from European competition after Heysel almost certainly robbed them of two or three more European titles. The current team is pathetic in comparison; and it remains to be seen if an ageing Chelsea team is in transition or decline. That they are in the position in the table they occupy is largely due to the mediocre quality of English football clubs.

[Stavros]

Will Hutton in The Guardian this week produced a stinging critique of football in the UK, which he compares unfavourably with Germany -the article was written before Pep Guardiola was confirmed as the next manager of Bayern Munich.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...in?INTCMP=SRCH

Meanwhile Rafa Benitez may be Chelsea's 'Interim Manager' but it hasn't stopped the Club from seeking his replacement -presumably on the basis he is going to be a total flop or do something to annoy Mr Abramovich...but it seems their first choice, Jurgen Klopp isn't interested, so the list now includes David Moyes and Michael Laudrup. Question is, money aside, who wants this job?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-a-plan-B.html

[JenniferParisHusband]

If this is indeed the case, why is it?

In the case of Manchester United, the argument will be based on the institutional development of the club, from its apparently benign owners, to the front and backroom staff who, one assumes, have been as enduring as the famous manager. What may not be apparent is the quality of the backroom staff, who must provide daily support to mostly young men whose minds, when not on the game, are focused on potentially destructive modes of behaviour. I seem to recall that Ferguson imposed a ban on Ryan Giggs giving interviews to the press for years. His dominant, possibly dictatorial character suggests this may be the best way to run a dressing room, but even a manager can't control what happens on the field of play, and while Ferguson has signed some useless players over the years, he has on the other hand recruited some outstanding players, creating strong defence, midfield and attacking formations -most people agree that the current weaknesses in United are the lack of a midfield bandmaster, and an ageing defence. But like Arsenal, they have well-established structures, just as Liverpool used to have, and it is noticeable that amongst Liverpool's many problems, the chaos in the boardroom of recent years has been damaging to the club.

Is it unfair to argue that City have bought their way to success? Initially this may have been true, but over the last few years I think the players have gelled as a team, and that the strengths of the defence and midfield are well-balanced with a formidable attacking force; the players seem now to understand each others strengths and will challenge United to the last minute of the last day. Unless discipline deserts them -Tevez seems to have mellowed in recent years, but Balotelli seems incapable of discipline, and Aguero wants to leave. In spite of this success, they have failed miserably in the premier European competition.

Both clubs are in the top quartile of European clubs, but are they as good as Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter, and AC Milan?

There was a time when Liverpool were the masters of Europe -it is possible that the teams fielded in the 1970s and 1980s were amongst the best teams ever assembled, anywhere -the eviction of this team from European competition after Heysel almost certainly robbed them of two or three more European titles. The current team is pathetic in comparison; and it remains to be seen if an ageing Chelsea team is in transition or decline. That they are in the position in the table they occupy is largely due to the mediocre quality of English football clubs.

I don't know if it's that unfair to say City have bought there way to success, yeah there had to be some building before the right pieces were in place, but it was a pretty quick building process, and not a lot of development from within.

Those other Manky bastards, they definitely paid their way up. I'm still angry that Van Persie ended up there. But I guess if you want to win cups, that's one of your best bets in England.

Heysel still pisses me off. I do believe it robbed us of at least two European titles, and has a lingering effect on players coming to Liverpool, and money to build championship teams. FSG is frakking cheap. There is a lot of investment that could be made now for long term success, both in on the field dollars and off. This window being a prime example. While Sturridge looked good at times, he's already being mis-managed in games, and shows a lack of killer instinct as he gets lazy after scoring once. I'd still rather have had Jordan Rhodes, some added quality in the left back, and some additional depth on the wings. Instead, they got one player (so far.) Nice going ya cheap bastards!

Off the field, they should have have an academy system like Barca has had for ages. Anfield sells out all the time, the "new" stadium should have been done by now, or the rebuild of Anfield. And seriously, who let BR pick up the transfers he did in the summer window without propper scouting? Horrible organization.

[robertlouis]

A very interesting FA cup weekend. The Premiership clubs by and large put out fairly strong teams and respected their lower league opponents, but the results were frankly even more astonishing than anyone expected. Luton beat Norwich, Oldham beat Liverpool, Leeds beat Tottenham, MK Dons thrashed QPR and Chelsea scraped a draw at lowly Brentford. Other top tier clubs like Wigan and Everton just scraped through by the odd goal.

Is the gulf not as wide as it used to be or is the premiership now as mediocre as it's ever been?

[Stavros]

Strong teams? Is that what you would call the Liverpool team? The simple truth is that England and Wales cannot justify two cup competitions, and the FA Cup which used to be the climax of the season, is now just another game before the main event, the final of the Champions League. The Premier League and the Champions League are the major competitions, partly because the football tends to be superior, but primarily because of the money. I used to watch the FA Cup every year but in recent years it has slipped off the radar, the magic has gone. It isn't the mediocrity of football, it is the overwhelming influence of money and TV rights. In a year or so I expect the FA Cup will be relegated to Sky.

[robertlouis]

Arsenal exited the FA Cup on Saturday against Blackburn, having succumbed earlier in the season to Bradford in the League Cup.

They are not going to win the champions' league either and are well out of the race for the Premiership.

Over his time at Arsenal, Arsene Wenger has arguably had a more profound and positive effect on players' attitudes, fitness etc than any other manager. He has built a series of successful teams which have often been a joy to watch, only surpassed in that sense by Fergie.

However, this is going to be the Gunners' eighth season without a trophy. Will he go at the end of the season or will he have to be pushed?

[Stavros]

The FA Cup isn't important, and they can still win the Champions League -why not? Were Chelsea expected to win or lose against Barcelona last season?

[robertlouis]

The FA Cup isn't important, and they can still win the Champions League -why not? Were Chelsea expected to win or lose against Barcelona last season?

They have a very tough tie against Bayern, who are flying in the Bundesliga and with Guardiola at the helm from next season could well become a real force in Europe.

And if they do lose the tie, what then?

[robertlouis]

They have a very tough tie against Bayern, who are flying in the Bundesliga and with Guardiola at the helm from next season could well become a real force in Europe.

And if they do lose the tie, what then?

And after a 3-1 defeat at home, it can't last beyond the end of the season.

BTW, I've seen a few games at the Allianz in Munchen when visiting the Bavarian end of the family. Beautiful stadium, great transport links, well-behaved fans, the best bratwurst ever, and less than half the price of the average Premiership game. Plus the club is largely owned by its fans. What's not to like and admire? No wonder Guardiola chose them over the bloated jokes that most English clubs have become.