What Is The Next Gun You Plan On Buying?

[trish]

Nicely argued. You make that case that in some locations legal carry may have a positive economic effect as well as deterring robberies. Though you have not argued the open carry wouldn’t have the same effect. Nor have you allayed my concerns with safety, education notwithstanding.

I am perfectly fine with that fact that your community has found carry to be an effective solution to a perplexing social problem (though I probably wouldn’t agree that it is the only solution or the best solution) ALEC and the NRA, however, are not content to let local communities, towns, cities or states to work out their own solutions to these thorny problems. They would ban every municipality and every state from outlawing concealed carry in public spaces. I think it strange that we can ban beer and wine from parks but not firearms.

Not every community is plagued with crime. There are so few serious crimes in my county that everyone can remember the circumstances of each one. We have had four murders in the last decade. One was a cuckold who brought his gun to work and shot his wife and her lover. One was a woman who drowned her newborn child and in the other the murder weapon was a car. In that same decade two children accidentally killed themselves with their father’s handgun and woman accidentally killed her sister showing her how it works. She took the gun safety course. Those are the events that people remember. I can also tell you that every year during hunting season, you can count on somebody getting creased, shot or peppered and you can also count on someone shooting a cow or a pig and into the picture window of a distance farm house they’re sure wasn’t in the line of fire or was out of range.

I don’t want to ban hunting and sport shooting. But in a town with four murders every ten years, we clearly don’t concealed carry. Arming this populace serves no purpose. There is no crime to suppress. There are no lives and pocketbooks kept safe from thieves that would counterbalance the lives lost and the injuries that would inevitably result if more people toted guns. Why won’t ALEC and the NRA let our town ban concealed carry?

They will argue it’s a second amendment issue. Yet a ban on concealed carry is not a ban on firearms nor even a ban on carry.

They will argue that if crime is not a problem in a community then people can individually decide for themselves not to exercise the ALEC given right to carry. True, they can; but they won’t. There’s a certain kind of guy who will jump at the chance to carry his favorite toy with him wherever he goes if he can be spared the embarrassment of carrying it out in the open. (I’m certainly not suggesting you carry for that reason) Gun related accidents in a community will always rise with the number guns being carried.

Clearly gun safety education is significantly suppresses the rate of gun related deaths and injuries, nevertheless the accident rate will never be an monotone decreasing function of the number of firearms carried.

Thanks, Quinn for your thoughtful response. From day one I always number you among my friends here in these forums.

[StlyeMeCunty]

NO GUNS!!! They scare me...

[Token Williams-Black]

These two right here...

[Prospero]

NO GUNS!!! They scare me...

Bravo.
I agree - and you're brave to post that in this thread amid the gunslingers (the few reasonable arguments for gun ownership aside). Too many people here fetishize the ownership of their guns as if they are penis substitutes or extensions and fall back on the constitution as a way of shitting down discussion.

[Quiet Reflections]

Bravo.
I agree - and you're brave to post that in this thread amid the gunslingers (the few reasonable arguments for gun ownership aside). Too many people here fetishize the ownership of their guns as if they are penis substitutes or extensions and fall back on the constitution as a way of shitting down discussion.

Are you suggesting our penises are only 9mm's

[Prospero]

A Freudian slip by me in my last post - shitting down discussion!!!

[Dino Velvet]

Bravo.
I agree - and you're brave to post that in this thread amid the gunslingers

Now, now, Prospero. Most, myself included, of us gun owners have no issue with pacifists. Stlye is a sweet girl.

[irvin66]

Now, now, Prospero. Most, myself included, of us gun owners have no issue with pacifists. Stlye is a sweet girl.

yep!

[Quinn]

Thanks, Quinn for your thoughtful response. From day one I always number you among my friends here in these forums.

Likewise on the friendship front. Even when I disagree with an argument you put forth, which is infrequent, I enjoy the edifying discourse that follows. A deeply reflective, contemplative nature is always appreciated.


My schedule is burtal today, so I have to be brief and less thorough than I would prefer. We agree that gun safety does suppress the rate of gun related deaths and injuries. Understanding things like how a firearm has to be suited to your body type for proper handling (much like a motorcycle) and how different types of ammunition interact with flesh and inanimate matter (overpenetration leading to an unintended targets being struck, etc.) are key. Nevertheless, you are right that more firearms will inevitably equate to more firearm related accidents, just like more motorcycles will inevitably lead to more motorcycle related deaths. The same goes for cars, planes, etc. It's a cliched response, I know, but it does beg the question "Just where do we draw the line on protecting the public from itself?"


So far as concealed vs. open carry is concerned, I'm not personally opposed to open carry. However, I do believe making it a legal requirement would be of primary benefit to violent criminal elements as it would allow them to identify with greater certainty those capable of resisting their efforts from those who cannot. Concealed carry removes that certainty, making any criminal action riskier and therefore less likely. To cite one piece of anecdotal evidence, I've seen far fewer road-rage incidents here in Atlanta than when I lived in NYC. Why? You never know who is carrying here. In NYC, it's a safe bet that the other guy is not.


As you've illustrated by citing your county's history, there is no one size fits all answer. There are numerous socioeconomic and cultural factors that make a workable solution in one region of the country injurious to another. Here in Atlanta, most of the police officers I know actually favor concealed carry (the same cannot be said of many other cities). Why? The APD is undermanned, underequipped, and just plain underfunded thanks to a city government that treats them in a manner nothing short of embarrassing. The people licensed to carry aren't the ones they need to worry about, and they know it. Places like the club I mentioned above are sites they don't generally have to apply their limited resources to, and they appreciate it.

-Quinn

[Prospero]

I'd like to leave one final remark here. My concern about the private ownership of guns does not make me a pacifist. I do not oppose war when it is the final resort and in defence against such evils as Nazism.