the rugby world cup

[robertlouis]

I think you're right about the politics of rugby, Stavros, but only in the narrow English context
Indeed, it is a narrow-minded class-riddled curse that seems to infect sport in England rather than in Wales, Scotland and Ireland, excepting the Old Firm rivalry which isn't really a class issue. Having said that, I have been told there have also been issues of class and caste around cricket in India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka and that someone (I forget the name) has attitubuted Sri Lanka's ascendancy in recent years to a breakdown of the class barriers that used to determine who played for the national team or not -and probably, since it is partly-school based, a hangover from Colonial rule and the development of education under the British? English? I think sport these days has become more egalitarian, and that is good for all.

The class bias in English sport - probably more down to blazered administrators than fans, these days - does a lot to maintain the hostility for all things sporting and English that is shared by the other constituent nations of the UK. Although being stuck on a train with a stack of braying Nigels on the way back from Twickenham a couple of years ago, drunkenly airing their race and class prejudices, was more than unpleasant. At that level they're probably infinitely worse than their soccer equivalents, as mummy and daddy have lavished fortunes on their education.

As for the Old Firm, that is mostly but not entirely a working class phenomenon - I was certainly always aware of the religious gulf in employment in the relatively short time that I worked in Scotland. However, if you look back into the history of the Orange Lodges in Northern Ireland, it is quite easy to see that their shoring up by the Protestant aristocracy, besides protecting the link with the mainland, was also a very handy means of dividing the working class, which is how it was translated into the same movement in Glasgow and the west of Scotland.

[russtafa]

all blacks 41 Tonga 10 that's the kiwis warm up

[Stavros]

I used to work with someone from Tonga, wonderful person, but I don't think anyone is surprised at the result.

What I don't understand, if Scotland and England both won their games, why does Scotland have one more point?

[russtafa]

because they invented whiskey ?

[Stavros]

Careful there, Russtafa, its Whisky -there have been enough lawsuits over the years to etch this in granite of the kind you see in Aberdeen. I currently have a 16 yr old Glenlivet on the shelf, useful as an aperitif I suppose. And thats not an answer to my question.

[russtafa]

Careful there, Russtafa, its Whisky -there have been enough lawsuits over the years to etch this in granite of the kind you see in Aberdeen. I currently have a 16 yr old Glenlivet on the shelf, useful as an aperitif I suppose. And thats not an answer to my question.

wow very classy stuff i once went to the Irish whiskey distillery in the early nineties with my bother. A great experience ,also the Guiness brewery .i loved Ireland beautiful country with great people and great music,the best pubs

[Stavros]

Guinness in Ireland doesn't taste the same as elsewhere, I think its the water -and its like soup, you don't need to eat if you have a pint of stout. I was once in O'Donohue's off St Stephen's Green at Sunday lunchtime and it was amazing, packed from wall to wall with one music combo in the back room competing with another in the front. Ended up getting mildly drunk with an Aussie who in his 'normal' life was trading in Papua New Guinea; I have no idea what a normal life is in PNG. Ireland is one of the loveliest countries in Europe, shame about the food, unless you like cabbage and onion and a fry-up for breakfast, lunch and dinner -which I guess is where the Guinness comes in....

[russtafa]

Guinness in Ireland doesn't taste the same as elsewhere, I think its the water -and its like soup, you don't need to eat if you have a pint of stout. I was once in O'Donohue's off St Stephen's Green at Sunday lunchtime and it was amazing, packed from wall to wall with one music combo in the back room competing with another in the front. Ended up getting mildly drunk with an Aussie who in his 'normal' life was trading in Papua New Guinea; I have no idea what a normal life is in PNG. Ireland is one of the loveliest countries in Europe, shame about the food, unless you like cabbage and onion and a fry-up for breakfast, lunch and dinner -which I guess is where the Guinness comes in....

PNG ,Aussie's live in compounds with guard dogs,and security and guns not a nice place

[Stavros]

I guess things have changed since 1975 which was when I met that guy, I remember asking him what the tribespeople were like given their reputation for ferocity; he said they were completely trustworthy as long as you were straight with them. Maybe modernisation has ruined the place, it often does.

[robertlouis]

Back on topic.

Having watched the "highlights" of England and Scotland's opening games, the kindest thing to say is that at least there's no risk of either side peaking too early.......

Dire stuff.