Andrej Pejic

[Ben]

Coupla more hot ones...

[Merkurie]

I know Andrej may ID as "completely androgynous" but he sure looks like a woman.
He should go on 'mones before he ends up looking like Vladimir Putin.

[wiltthestilt]

i dont recall calling you gay anywhere.i think your personalizing and putting words in my mouth.i can give two flying fucking trannies what you are or arent.it has no bearing on my life.stop trying to peg me as intolerant or whatever.i had an opinion and i expressed it with out name calling or pointing of fingers.leave it alone.i respect everyones opinion even if i dont agree with it.try doing the same
you may not agree with my logic but its not unclear or confusing.if the person considers themselves a woman and lives their life as a woman than they are a woman.being attracted to them is not gay.however if someone considers themselves a man no matter how pretty they are still living life as a man.
if you want to think im a man in a dress that up to you.i know one thing when my dress comes off i still look like a woman so your opinion is what ever to me lol.ive explained it time and time again the difference between a trans woman and other gender variant people.i cant keep going over this.

How someone "feels" about themselves as no bearing at all on the sexuality of the person who finds them attractive. Pejic, when in make-up, (arguably) looks more like the archetypal beautiful female than anyone on this board. But he is male, whether in his mind he is a girl or not; whether he is attracted to other men or not; whether he wears female clothing on weekends or not. Pejic could wipe off his make-up, don a pair of blue jeans and flannel shirt, and go skirt chasing at the local pub during his time off, and that would have no bearing whatsoever on the sexuality of those who want make out with him when he's in full drag.

Strictly speaking, if an otherwise straight male who has no idea who Pejic is were checking him out at a gas pump and getting turned on, it can be said that the man is having homosexual desires because the object of his desire is another man. This is a trivial point, because anyone can be attracted to a member of his or her own sex under some set of circumstances, even if these circumstances are extremely rare. To deny that is ridiculous. The question isn't whether the impulse is homosexual, but whether it is normal among heterosexual men to find a man like Pejic sexually attractive based on the limited information available to them.

I would argue that it is no less "gay" to be attracted to female transsexual than it is to be attracted to Pejic. A transsexual female is, objectively, biologically, male as well. She has a Y chromosome. She cannot give birth, and does not possess the organs necessary for another human to grow within her. From a biological standpoint, she is male and to be attracted to her is homosexual.

Since humans have long progressed beyond having sex for the purposes of reproduction, it hardly matter who one fucks, and biological definitions having given way to more malleable social definitions. And these social definitions of "male" and "female;" "gay" and "straight" can be rationalized to no end and to me are frivolous and not worth arguing over. I will say when some here try to draw some bright-line distinction between attraction to Pejic and attraction to the Grooby girl of the week--this is distinction that has very little objective evidence supporting it, and would be laughable to most outside this community and to many within it.

[Merkurie]

I would argue that it is no less "gay" to be attracted to female transsexual than it is to be attracted to Pejic. A transsexual female is, objectively, biologically, male as well. She has a Y chromosome. She cannot give birth, and does not possess the organs necessary for another human to grow within her. From a biological standpoint, she is male and to be attracted to her is homosexual.

That does not make any sense.The attraction of a "straight" male to a female is not homosexual if that male perceives and is attracted to the female that he sees. Regardless of "what she is biologically". He may opt out of the sex act to preserve his "straightness", but the initial attraction to a subjective female cannot be "gay" regardless of biology because this "straight male" is perceiving a person of a different gender than himself.

For instance, if Emma Watson rolled out of bed one morning to get gas wearing sweats and a flannel shirt. And a gay man was attracted to the "young male" person he sees, does the fact Emma has a vag, make that gay man's attraction straight?

Of course not.

[wiltthestilt]

That does not make any sense.The attraction of a "straight" male to a female is not homosexual if that male perceives and is attracted to the female that he sees. Regardless of "what she is biologically". He may opt out of the sex act to preserve his "straightness", but the initial attraction to a subjective female cannot be "gay" regardless of biology because this "straight male" is perceiving a person of a different gender than himself.

For instance, if Emma Watson rolled out of bed one morning to get gas wearing sweats and a flannel shirt. And a gay man was attracted to the "young male" person he sees, does the fact Emma has a vag, make that gay man's attraction straight?

Of course not.

It does make sense. You just need to think more about it. If a male is attracted to another male, that is by definition homosexual. I shouldn't have used the word "gay." I would edit that if I could. It doesn't matter if that other male is a ringer of Olivia Wilde. It is a man. And I said this is a trivial point because almost any man would react the same way. The point is, anyone can be attracted to a member of the same sex under some set of circumstances.

For instance, if Emma Watson rolled out of bed one morning to get gas wearing sweats and a flannel shirt. And a gay man was attracted to the "young male" person he sees, does the fact Emma has a vag, make that gay man's attraction straight?

I don't know what a vag is, but I would say the attraction is heterosexual. Keep in mind, the biological purpose of these compulsions is to deliver the sperm to the egg. How it gets there is not important. Human compulsions can be manipulated just like compulsions in animals. But it is the compulsions that are being manipulated, not the underlying reality.

[alexandros8814]

WoW, I can only imagine what six months of 'mones would do for him.

I think he is already taking hormones. I mean, look at his tits...

[Ben]

I think he is already taking hormones. I mean, look at his tits...

It would certainly explicate his [her?] feminine/soft physical features

[Ben]

I know Andrej may ID as "completely androgynous" but he sure looks like a woman.
He should go on 'mones before he ends up looking like Vladimir Putin.

Can't see him looking like Putin anytime soon....

[Merkurie]

t does make sense. You just need to think more about it. If a male is attracted to another male, that is by definition homosexual. I shouldn't have used the word "gay." I would edit that if I could. It doesn't matter if that other male is a ringer of Olivia Wilde. It is a man. And I said this is a trivial point because almost any man would react the same way. The point is, anyone can be attracted to a member of the same sex under some set of circumstances.

This person is not"male" in a biological sense.





So by your argument, a male attracted to Buck Angel is having a heterosexual attraction?
That is why your argument does not make sense. No matter how long you think about it.

[wiltthestilt]

This person is not"male" in a biological sense.





So by your argument, a male attracted to Buck Angel is having a heterosexual attraction?
That is why your argument does not make sense. No matter how long you think about it.

Maybe you ought to sleep on it then, because you still aren't getting it. The human species, for the most part, is divided into male and female. Even within that dichotomy there is some grey area, but generally reproduction occurs when the male fertilizes the female through sexual intercourse. Can we agree on that much?

It does not matter what each sex looks like externally. Males and females were not always recognizable as they are now, nor will they be recognizable as they are now in the future if the human race does not go extinct before radical change occurs.

Humans feel sexual attraction for other humans who, through sensory cues, they deem suitable to fertilize or to be fertilized by. But nature does not function perfectly, and because sex is pleasurable, humans will devote energy to finding sexual partners they feel attraction toward, but who they logically find unsuitable for procreation with. In other words, they know that their instincts are failing them (impelling them to devote energy to copulating with others with whom they do not intend to create offspring) but they proceed anyway because the sex is pleasurable.

If an otherwise straight man scopes out Pejic standing by the bar looking hot in lipstick and miniskirt, and he finds himself wanting to stick his wang in a vagina that isn't there, then yes, the attraction is objectively homosexual. He is a male and he is sexually attracted to another male. But, wait, doesn't he reasonably believe it's a female that he's oogling? Well, perhaps "reasonably" based on how a similarly situated male may feel looking at Pejic, but that does not change the reality of the situation. To say he was fooled or confused by Pejic's appearance shows only that his senses are not refined enough to distinguish between male and female when certain variables are manipulated--but this is just another way of saying that he is capable of homosexual attraction when certain circumstances are present (i.e., when the male is thin, has high cheek bones, has long hair, is dressed in traditionally female attire, ect.) As I stated, this is a trivial point. Who cares whether a heterosexual man may be fleetingly attracted to another man in an obscure case like Pejic's. I made it to illustrate the frivolity of trying to distinguish between a man being sexuality attracted to a CD such as Pejic and being sexually attracted to a TS such as say, Kimber--as neither are biologically female; but both may be appealing to an ordinarily straight man who does not also want to hook up with Ricky Martin.

As to your hypothetical regarding Buck Angel, that is more difficult case. A heterosexual man who found himself attracted to Buck Angel, but not anatomical men, could almost be said to have more refined sexual urges than a typical heterosexual man, because he is able to filter out all that ostensible masculinity to reach the underlying pussy. But Buck's appearance also screams of barrenness which pretty much negates the pussy. From the point of view of nature, a better dichotomy than gay and straight is probably fertile and infertile, because if there is no possibility of reproduction, it hardly matters where you dip your stick into a barren female, a male anus, or a hole in the wall. If you are doing it for pleasure it hardly matters what you fuck.