are you in for or against the death penalty

[trish]

I brought up freedom all the way back on the first page post #3 as a side issue. Here how it came about. I was reading some years an account of the Lewis & Clark expedition. On several occasions they resorted to flogging soldiers for relatively minor breaches like falling asleep on guard duty, drinking on duty, theft etc. Judging by the account no one questioned the practice, thought it abnormal or undue. Now flash forward to modern times. It got me to thinking that were I given the choice between getting five lashes or being sent to jail for a couple of years for three strikes of possession of marijuana, I’d choose the flogging.

Ask almost any person in the western world to list the political ideals they value the most and freedom is on the list. Yet freedom is the first thing we think to take away from a person when they commit a crime. To me that seems a bit ironic.

When trying to balance accounts with a murderer, I think the value the murderer places on freedom and the value the murderer places on life that is most relevant. But you ask me which is more important to me. It’s a tough call and of course depends on a number of things__like “Just what sort of restriction of freedom are we talking about and for how long?” Would I choose death over life long incarceration in a Federal penitentiary? I’d probably say yes. But I realize that most people who have actually had to make that choice chose life long incarceration. So I really can’t say with certainty what my answer would be were I really to find myself in the dire circumstance having to make that choice.

Regardless of how I feel about the relative merits of freedom vs life, my judgment on capital punishment is, “I’m against it.” It’s only the different arguments that have led various of us to that same conclusion that I’ve been questioning.

[Stavros]

Yet freedom is the first thing we think to take away from a person when they commit a crime. To me that seems a bit ironic.

I think the reasoning contrasts individual freedom with the freedom of society as a whole -the classic liberal definition is that one should be free to act as long as those acts do not harm or cause harm to others. Withdrawing freedom -of movement, for example, through imprisonment - is supposed to enhance the felon's appreciation of what freedom is compared to his/her selfish actions, so he/she won't do it again. Anyway this is way off the original thread, and it seems most people are opposed to the death penalty, as I am.

[russtafa]

i thought imprisonment was also to protect the victim or potential victims

[russtafa]

Australian law is reactive not proactive so it is always after the fact

[Stavros]

It was just a general point, Russtafa I can't cover all the angles all the time.

[hippifried]

At the risk of gettin' all Zenned up: Freedom is a state of mind. Life isn't an abstract at all. Take that away & freedom is a moot issue.

I've come to the conclusion that the discussion over capital punishment is really never about the person being executed. It's about the comfort level of the individuals who make up the society that's contemplating that action. Conscience is a funny thing. Good to have around though. My Question: When someone continuously goes out of their way to violate the moral code, how much of an expectation should they have of being covered by that same code?

It was just a general point, Russtafa I can't cover all the angles all the time.

No shit???!!! Damn! Another illusion dashed...

[Stavros]

When someone continuously goes out of their way to violate the moral code, how much of an expectation should they have of being covered by that same code?

The answer is none at all, they dont have a moral code, and don't know what morals are in any social sense. A lot of criminals, including pyschotics and psychopaths, as well as people like Mao Zedong, are so completely self-centred they only act on their own impulses and desires -leaving it to others to make judgements of them. That is also why the death penalty for them is meaningless, they always know they are going to die, how is of no importance; and yes, all these processes of judgement, of punishment, are for us: to allow us to confirm to each other that our values are worth something, that pure anarchy is both impracticable, and dangerous.

[russtafa]

i thought in locking someone up or executing someone was more about protecting society than punishment

[bte]

Death penalty FTW.

[BluegrassCat]

Death penalty FTW.

You support the death penalty for touring Wisconsin? Or is it for torturing Welshmen? Either way, harsh, dude.