are you in for or against the death penalty

[hippifried]

what parts? i always liked the French system"guilty until proven innocent" makes it harder to weasel out of it

Heart, skin, corneas, all the organs, etc.. Poisons or high doses of electric current make just about all of it unusable. You know somebody, who's probably perfectly healthy, is going to die at a specific time. There's people on waiting lists for every piece of that cadaver. Why waste it?

[NaughtyJane]

I suppose it serves some of society... The Death Penalty.
My personal take is it cheapens the institution, the judicial ideal... and a contemporary, cozy euthanasia is a easy road for the culture, and the defendant.
I'd prefer life for the accused, live it out, think it through... and in the instance of error, survival.
But, my idealism is certainly trumped by all the complexities of the actual dispensation of sentences and practices of police and law.
The practice of law, the criminal justice system is like a very undesirable communicable disease .... avoided at all costs.

[runningdownthatdream]

The practice of law, the criminal justice system is like a very undesirable communicable disease .... avoided at all costs.

Agreed..............the very fact that we are enslaved by enshrined laws diminishes our inherent freedom.

[trish]

Yeah, fuck laws. People are freer when their whole community can be dominated by the whims of one rich fucker and his hired thugs.

[hippifried]

Yeah, fuck laws. People are freer when their whole community can be dominated by the whims of one rich fucker and his hired thugs.

So Godmother, could yoou grant me a favor?

[runningdownthatdream]

Yeah, fuck laws. People are freer when their whole community can be dominated by the whims of one rich fucker and his hired thugs.

Perhaps that may happen. But people will be free to choose whether they want to be dominated or whether they don't. The problem is that we want the safety and security that laws bring but to force people to accept those laws we then install the security and government apparatus which becomes the new tool for those who seek to dominate others. So, in effect 'we the people' have created our own prisons and the rich fuckers just uses his servants to run the prison.

But at least we can be force fed all the garbage sold to us in safety and security!

[Faldur]

So Godmother, could yoou grant me a favor?

Come on Hippi, its not the day of her daughters wedding..

[trish]

Perhaps that may happen. But people will be free to choose whether they want to be dominated or whether they don't.

How do you figure that? In the world of sexual fantasy one consents to domination. But in the real world, domination usually means "against one's will."

The problem is that we want the safety and security that laws bring but to force people to accept those laws...

In a representative government we agree to those laws, they aren't forced upon us. They are the result of a long process public discussion, and of give and take among our elected legislators. Of course there are always some people who have to be forced to do even the most reasonable things, like if you live in a community and use the local well and the local roads, contribute a share proportional to your use. There are always people who have to be forced to do things like not kill others, not steal, not con others out of their life savings, etc.

...we then install the security and government apparatus which becomes the new tool for those who seek to dominate others.

This is always a danger. Governments which were fairly representative can be usurped by powerful people. This is why we try to build in checks and balances. It's why we shouldn't allow huge gaps in wealth and power to exist within society, at least not without a continuum between. This is why the Supreme Court made a mistake declaring corporations were persons when it comes to their ability to give to political campaigns. But living with these risks, these correctable mistakes and others is preferable to living without laws entirely and serving in a more immediate fashion the whims of the wealthy and powerful.

So, in effect 'we the people' have created our own prisons and the rich fuckers just uses his servants to run the prison.

Obviously you haven't lived in a real prison or served a real tyrant. Neither have I, but I've read and have an imagination. We built a reasonably secure society. Every system, even the system of having no system, can be taken over by the charismatic, the wealthy and the powerful. Each system runs its own risks. The system of having no laws, runs the worst risks.

[Helvis2012]

No....

[runningdownthatdream]

How do you figure that? In the world of sexual fantasy one consents to domination. But in the real world, domination usually means "against one's will."

There are those 'in the real world' who are quite content to be administered.

In a representative government we agree to those laws, they aren't forced upon us. They are the result of a long process public discussion, and of give and take among our elected legislators. Of course there are always some people who have to be forced to do even the most reasonable things, like if you live in a community and use the local well and the local roads, contribute a share proportional to your use. There are always people who have to be forced to do things like not kill others, not steal, not con others out of their life savings, etc.

Representative government didn't spring fully formed - like Diana from Zeus - out of the mind of humanity. Its roots were likely noble but even then it wasn't a process which involved the majority of the people in any one city/culture/country. If you buy into the theory that democracy came from Greece then you should know that it was only a small part of the male population of the greek city-states that had the right to vote for their representatives. Over time, sure the process became more inclusive but it also became more malleable and less transparent. I do not believe that truly representative government is possible without a fully armed and educated population which ensures that government never becomes bigger than the people.

This is always a danger. Governments which were fairly representative can be usurped by powerful people. This is why we try to build in checks and balances. It's why we shouldn't allow huge gaps in wealth and power to exist within society, at least not without a continuum between. This is why the Supreme Court made a mistake declaring corporations were persons when it comes to their ability to give to political campaigns. But living with these risks, these correctable mistakes and others is preferable to living without laws entirely and serving in a more immediate fashion the whims of the wealthy and powerful.

You have a good point - we in North America are indeed much better off than others since we are not blatantly enslaved.

Obviously you haven't lived in a real prison or served a real tyrant. Neither have I, but I've read and have an imagination. We built a reasonably secure society. Every system, even the system of having no system, can be taken over by the charismatic, the wealthy and the powerful. Each system runs its own risks. The system of having no laws, runs the worst risks.

I have spent a short time imprisoned and have lived under a pseudo-dictatorship. Definitely living on the outside of prison and in Canada is preferable. It is all about degrees anyways....we choose to accept that which is the least risk in order to preserve life. But somehow the primal spark of Abel remains in me. (and no I'm not a follower of the bible or any religion)