Classical Music, Poetry and stuff

[Stavros]

Baroque predictable, i think i disagree, its very disciplined yes, but predictable, no ?

I didn't mean to sound pejorative -I was suggesting that in the baroque there were a set of rules that composers followed, a 'discipline if you will', the skill was working within these rules and continuing to create something new and fresh, I was only being negative in reference to Handel whose music I cant listen to without feeling imprisoned. I think there is a theory somewhere about people who believe classical music began with Bach and ended with Beethoven -I once met a German who took this view. He was opposed to romantic music and its consequences because it was driven by emotion and this allowed composers to stretch out music, radically change its tone and form and enable them to create chaos -but as Kenneth Clark once argued, there is always something of the classical in romantic art and vice versa. There is as much emotion in Bach and Mozart as there is in Wagner, only its expressed with more decorum...I think we are in the happy days when you can choose your medium to suit your mood, but in the end its a matter of personal taste.

I am a HUGE Lopatkina fan
So am I, she is a wonderful dancer, but I am not old enough to have seen Pavlova dance and compare the two, honest...

[StlyeMeCunty]

Baroque predictable, i think i disagree, its very disciplined yes, but predictable, no ?

I didn't mean to sound pejorative -I was suggesting that in the baroque there were a set of rules that composers followed, a 'discipline if you will', the skill was working within these rules and continuing to create something new and fresh, I was only being negative in reference to Handel whose music I cant listen to without feeling imprisoned. I think there is a theory somewhere about people who believe classical music began with Bach and ended with Beethoven -I once met a German who took this view. He was opposed to romantic music and its consequences because it was driven by emotion and this allowed composers to stretch out music, radically change its tone and form and enable them to create chaos -but as Kenneth Clark once argued, there is always something of the classical in romantic art and vice versa. There is as much emotion in Bach and Mozart as there is in Wagner, only its expressed with more decorum...I think we are in the happy days when you can choose your medium to suit your mood, but in the end its a matter of personal taste.

I am a HUGE Lopatkina fan
So am I, she is a wonderful dancer, but I am not old enough to have seen Pavlova dance and compare the two, honest...

I would be surprised if anyone here was old enough to see here dance LOL! You can see a clip of her dancing the same piece as it was originated on youtube. Here it is!

[Prospero]

And I was sure your wit and wisdom must come from someone at least in their nineties, Stavros

[Prospero]

I believe that the structure of Baroque music appeals to an audience nurtured on the rigidity of rock 'n' roll music. The generation who grew up before the rock era seemed, by and large, to prefer later romantic composers, but the post sixties generation when moving on from rock have in many cases chosen to listen to the Baroque.

[Stavros]

I believe that the structure of Baroque music appeals to an audience nurtured on the rigidity of rock 'n' roll music

I think you should be more precise about which R&R you refer to, is it for example, Led Zeppelin and Guns 'n Roses, or Pink Floyd -? I can understand the drift of your argument but I don't know enough about r&r to comment.

The argument that intrigues me is the one derived in part from Plato's critique of poetry and Lenin's notorious remarks about Beethoven's Apassionata sonata which he loved, but which produced an emotional reaction in him which dissipated his energy and thus detracted from the need for revolutionaries to be forever vigilant in their prosecution of the class struggle...when he was a boy there was a score of the Ring on the family piano, I think he turned against Wagner in his mature years...

...in other words, music and poetry for some are, in their entirety, a threat to the pursuit of reason precisely because they inspire irrational thoughts and feelings in people; and for some this is the difference between 'acceptable' tonally secure music and 'dangerous' atonal music even when it merely strays from tonic resolution-Stalin's fury at Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District -'chaos instead of music' and Socialist Realism's Hymns to the Boy who Fell in Love with a Tractor are another consequence...

I once spent the best part of a day listening to Don Cherry -the guy who lived upstairs objected, claiming it was 'soophisticated noise'...

The Baroque explores within a set framework, when it succeeds it is outstanding, when it fails it is boring -like most art I guess.

[Prospero]

Well not the Floyd of led Zeppelin... more the twelve bar blues and rigid verse chorus structure of earlier rock and roll. it is the innate order - a form of musical conservatism. That would probably have made it appealing to Stalin - if it was freed from its otherwise rebellious quality. Dissonance, disorder etc are open doors in music and suggest other possibilities don't they. The anarchic scratch of jazz on the shiny surfaces of the idealised state or corporation. And yes when baroque is good it is utterly wonderful, but whe nit fails there is little more dull.

[Birgitta]

It feels to me that early music / baroque the emotions are more universal and less egoistical (i dont want to make this spund negative in any way), im not sure how to explain it...i do love classical music too though...but baroque is music i listen to daily and no matter what mood i am in, i enjoy it...
this is not the case with classical music for me...
Atonal music can be great...yet sometimes it sounds to me that it was composed just to be different then what went before and not because it wants to communicate with the listener, but its all so very personal, also the way the music is performed can make such a huge difference ! Anyway i looooove it, music really makes me happy !
And Prospero, its true baroque reminds me of rock, punk rock even lol, ...maybe im a tough kitten after all

Love
Birgitta

[Birgitta]

[OmarZ]

As I awoke this morning
When all sweet things are born
A robin perched on my windowsill
To greet the coming dawn
He sang his song so sweetly
And paused for a moment's lull
I gently raised the window
And crushed his fucking skull

[Birgitta]

As I awoke this morning
When all sweet things are born
A robin perched on my windowsill
To greet the coming dawn
He sang his song so sweetly
And paused for a moment's lull
I gently raised the window
And crushed his fucking skull

Lol !