Classical Music, Poetry and stuff

[Stavros]

There is a discussion of this and other myths on Poe here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthe..._b_334742.html
There were racists in the 19th century -and the 20th and still today, at least provide some evidence if you have it, on Poe.

[nicebrn]

There is a discussion of this and other myths on Poe here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthe..._b_334742.html
There were racists in the 19th century -and the 20th and still today, at least provide some evidence if you have it, on Poe.

I saw that link on HuffPo last night and blew it off. You should have dug a little deeper. Yes, his stories are filled with a few racist stereotypes. I'll explain that away as being a product of the time.

It's also unclear whether Poe inherited that slave or whether he was acting as the agent for his aunt in the sale, so I'll set that aside as an example. I'll also set aside the question of whether the mere possession of slaves presupposes racism, and highlight the fact that he did write (or so thoroughly re-edit the work as to effectively make it his own) a non-satirical, non-ironic, well-known defense of the institution of slavery. He also went far out of his way to support and defend those who also championed the rightness of the institution (which was most commonly justified on the basis of white supremacy). So yes, I think my original claim stands.

[Stavros]

well-known defense of the institution of slavery

Many thanks for this reference. This certaintly gives a different, more accurate, and more negative perspective on Poe as a man, I think like many others I am not familiar with the journalism even if it is not always 'signed'' although Edmund Wilson suggests the French symoblists knew his essays as well as his stories. I suspect that we are in a situation not unlike that encountered with Wagner -do you throw out the music-dramas because of Wagner's anti-Jewish rants and writings? One can sense in Poe's writings a deep resentment of the rich and the privileged, forcing us, as it were, to 'look up' with Poe from his disadvantaged position -yet though he owned no property he lived in households which owned slaves. And clearly it was not enough for him; it underlines the unhappiness of the man, it doesn't mean he did not write powerful stories either, but doesn't let him off politically.

[nicebrn]

well-known defense of the institution of slavery

Many thanks for this reference. This certaintly gives a different, more accurate, and more negative perspective on Poe as a man, I think like many others I am not familiar with the journalism even if it is not always 'signed'' although Edmund Wilson suggests the French symoblists knew his essays as well as his stories. I suspect that we are in a situation not unlike that encountered with Wagner -do you throw out the music-dramas because of Wagner's anti-Jewish rants and writings? One can sense in Poe's writings a deep resentment of the rich and the privileged, forcing us, as it were, to 'look up' with Poe from his disadvantaged position -yet though he owned no property he lived in households which owned slaves. And clearly it was not enough for him; it underlines the unhappiness of the man, it doesn't mean he did not write powerful stories either, but doesn't let him off politically.

Sure.

That link is a pretty good starting point for doing your investigation, so I didn't dig too deeper than the first few primary sources. The Paulding-Drayton review and the speech endorsing Nathaniel Tucker are quite damning on their own.

I'm not really in that lit-crit school of trashing the work of artists who might have had a few insensitive and ridiculous beliefs. Not unless they're still living, anyway, in which case I try very hard not to give them any money.

Unless they hold particularly hateful and ignorant views, I tend to give historical figures a pass and evaluate only their body of work itself. Poe is dead, and the dead cannot hurt the living...so I'll go right on enjoying his excellent proto-detective fiction. (Other than "The Raven" and "Ulalume," I'm not too acquainted with his poetry.)

....American superhero and horror/fantasy comics are my primary source of art appreciation these days anyway. I'm really into that "Comics as Modern Myth" thesis. In fact, I've been thinking of posting an examination of Grant Morrison's work to this thread....

[robertlouis]

Anyone else here go into absolute waves of emotional spasms when listening to Sibelius?

In a word, yes! Especially Symphony No 2, and Finlandia, one of the most arousing pieces of orchestral showing off I can think of.

Add to that the final movement of the Fifth Symphony with its remarkable series of trumpet blasts for the finale and for me the whole of the Seventh, especially in the Ashkenazy version. For a man who claimed, in his famous exchange with Mahler, that the symphony was nothing if not rational and minimalist, he certainly has the ability to bring tears to the eyes and a lump to the throat.

[robertlouis]

It was the 19th Century.

There weren't many who weren't racist--or at least white supremacist, which is almost the same thing--by modern standards.

Just as Lincoln was. He was morally and philosophically opposed to slavery both at the institutional and individual levels, but thought that the long-term solution for America's black population was repatriation to Africa and that the white man was much the superior of his black counterpart.

But his views were both conventional and highly representative of the time, and it doesn't prevent me as a Brit for having him as one of my heroes.

[Stavros]

Last night I watched the film New York, I Love You The film was inspired by the film Paris, Je t'aime - both films are comprised of shorts which are shot in different parts of the city by different directors, on the the theme of love. The French film, released in 2006 was originally to be made up of 20 shorts, one each for the 20 arrondissement that comprise metro Paris within the Boulevard Peripherique -two directors pulled out so in fact there are only 18, but each one is distinct and has its own flavour, and at the end some loose ends are tied. Love in the French film is the conventional boy-meets-girl-falls-in-love; it can be parental love; love of place; fantasy-love; and so on: it benefits from the photogenic qualities of Paris, the quality of the writing acting and directing: New York, I Love You, fails on all these levels.

To begin with, it isn't always clear where the film is being shot, other than than Manhattan is New York -with one exception the last segment of ten is shot in Brighton Beach. There are obligatory New York Jews, Italian-Americans, and one segment is shot in Chinatown. There is an English musician trying to develop a career; a sardonic hooker; a businessman whose role-play with his wife is a mimic of the Bob Hoskins scene in Paris, and so on. A couple of Indians, in front of and behind the camera, but no Black people, other than one cab driver who is from Haiti, and Carlos Acosta who is Cuban and lives in London (as far as I know).

I thought this was a missed opportunity to emulate Paris; I don't know what other city could stand in, although I suppose places like San Francisco and LA -cities with distinct sectors and multiple identities- could do it. Anyway here are the imdb links:

Paris, Je T'Aime (2006) - IMDb@@AMEPARAM@@http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTc1MDgwNDE4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTQzMzc0MQ@@._ V1._SX93_SY140_.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@BMTc1MDgwNDE4MF5BMl 5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTQzMzc0MQ@@@@AMEPARAM@@SX93@@AMEPAR AM@@SY140 (Paris)
New York, I Love You (2009) - IMDb@@AMEPARAM@@http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI3NDYxOTM4OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTEwNTI4Mg@@._ V1._SX94_SY140_.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@BMTI3NDYxOTM4OF5BMl 5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTEwNTI4Mg@@@@AMEPARAM@@SX94@@AMEPAR AM@@SY140 (New York)

[trish]

Add to that the final movement of the Fifth Symphony with its remarkable series of trumpet blasts for the finale and for me the whole of the Seventh, especially in the Ashkenazy version. For a man who claimed, in his famous exchange with Mahler, that the symphony was nothing if not rational and minimalist, he certainly has the ability to bring tears to the eyes and a lump to the throat.

You should check out "Dark Waters" by the modern composer Ingram Marshall.

[robertlouis]

You should check out "Dark Waters" by the modern composer Ingram Marshall.

Thank you Trish. I'll certainly check that out.

[Stavros]

Ingram Marshall -not a name I had previously heard of, I am ashamed to say; however I checked it out on YouTube and it indicates the options that composers have been able to explore outside the dreary, lifeless legacy of Schoenberg and Stravinsky- there is so much music out there from which to draw inspiration. It also has some kind of congruence with what Klaus Schulze has been working with, vide Irrlicht: