60 minutes = $188 million in new debt

[Faldur]

Premise) When the government hires people it insist they be paid the going wage for their work.

Well the government has no money, it only has what it siezes from it's citizens. When the government pays a worker from tax collections a 100% drain from the treasurery is achieved. If that same job is done by the private sector a net gain is achieved for the treasury. For every government job we privatize, income rises substantially to the treasury.

But then again you have already proved you have no interest in good economics, you want more wasteful spending, with additional job killing tax increases.

[trish]

"seizes" yeah, we know where you're coming from...but you're wrong, it's not a moral issue.

[hippifried]

What a crock... I don't even know why we're arguing about Friedman's proven failure. Or the egoist bullshit of Ayn Rand, which dosn't work either. This is way beyond some goofball crap about liberals & conservatives. It's become fanatics vs anti-fanatics, with the fanatics claiming the label of "conservative". How does that work? When did radical change become synonymous with conservatism?

You guys are trying to destroy America. If the cold war was still going, I'd swear the republican party was in the employ of the Soviets. Hell, even the commie Chinese aren't trying to economically kill the world's biggest market. What? You're worried about the debt being called in? By whom? Who on this planet would have the wherewithal or the unmitigated gaul to try & take us on financially? What the hell are you worried about? You think Wells Fargo & BofA are going to try & do something to their own motherland? Why would they? They know they can't move somewhere else, because there isn't anywhere else. You keep talking about the debt as if it's hard currency. It isn't, & gold isn't money no matter how hard you wish. Y'all keep talking about this country as if it worked the same way as that Korean market down the street or that Hindu motel down on "Ho street". Well it isn't, & there's no person, business, NGO, or government entity on this planet that isn't beholden in some way to the largesse of the American public through their government. That includes y'all, no matter how much you claim it ain't so.

Enough of this bullshit. This country has been in an economic malaise since Richard Nixon debased & floated the dollar, arbitrarily ending the Bretton Woods international monetary agreement that brought us 25 tears of stability during the biggest economic boom in the history of the world. We've had a compounding inflationary spiral ever since, & the dollar now buys a single digit percentage of what it did pre-shock. I can't help but wonder if Republicans are trying to sell us out or if they're just naive. Since the southern rebellion, I can't think of a single major economic downturn that didn't happen on their watch. & we're supposed buy the same line of bullshit that's handed us 2 bank panics in the last 20 years, & the biggest deficits in history? Go catch a clue.

[hippifried]

"seizes" yeah, we know where you're coming from...but you're wrong, it's not a moral issue.

Moral? LOL! Under Ayn Rand's egoist philosophy, there's no such thing as morality.

[Faldur]

I'd swear the republican party was in the employ of the Soviets, if balancing the budget and paying off our debt is "Soviet" like, call me comrade.

This country has been in an economic malaise since Richard Nixon , ok so because Johnny did it its ok for you to do it? How old are you again? I've got kids that use reasoning like that. You don't live $15 trillion beyond your means, comes a time you take the credit card away from the spoiled brat and give em a good smack up side of the head.

Clear distinctions are being drawn, we can see which party really cares about responsible government. We've now borrowed another $13.5 billion since this thread started, just 3 days ago.

[yodajazz]

Well the government has no money, it only has what it siezes from it's citizens. When the government pays a worker from tax collections a 100% drain from the treasurery is achieved. If that same job is done by the private sector a net gain is achieved for the treasury. For every government job we privatize, income rises substantially to the treasury.

But then again you have already proved you have no interest in good economics, you want more wasteful spending, with additional job killing tax increases.

I question whether or not a private collection agency is really more effecient. With privacy you also have a duplicate admninstration. I know in the example of truck drivers in Iraq, they were paid numerous times, what would have been paid to a soldiers, along with a duplicate adminstration. My favorite, privatized government function is prisons. Eventually there becomes a conflict between the concept of rehabilitation and profits. And that also becomes subject to illegal influences. An example is of a judge, who accepted bribes to sentence juveniles to a private facility. The purpose of justice to benefit the society as a whole, was compromised for the sake of profit.

And in fact some, say that the big controversy over locking up illegal immigrants in Arizona, was fund by private prison corporations.

[hippifried]

Hey Faldur,
So uh... When is everythibng going to collapse again? It's easier to make plans for the coming apocalypse with a firm date. If you could break it down to the hour & minute, that'd be appreciated too. I'll get the party hats. You & the rest of the treasonous commies will be wanting to celebrate the foreign conquest of America, right? & a fun time was had by all.

[Stavros]

the question in my opinion is not one of not enough money. Where do all those billions go

This kind of point really goes to the core about money: how is it spent and what can be done to tackle this aspect of govt? An assumption often made by the libertarian/conservative bloc is that it is precisely the bloated and bureaucratic nature of govt that increases costs which get lost in the details of budget reports and so on; the argument is that if govt was run like a private company, these costs would not mount up -but the private sector is not necessarily more efficient just because its private. My earlier point about procurement in the defence industry where a screwdriver costs $25 for no other reason than the client is the air force asks for this kind of thing to be stamped out. Another source of savings, but I guess you need a combination of oversight on the part of your Senators/Congressional Representatives, and the will to introduce mechanisms to deal with it -or maybe its all there in the machinery? We are struggling in the UK with a Ministry of Defence that is overloaded with staff and costs -like the NHS the military is a 'sensitive' dept but at some point these bloated budgets have to be trimmed.

[Faldur]

Hey Faldur,
So uh... When is everythibng going to collapse again? It's easier to make plans for the coming apocalypse with a firm date. If you could break it down to the hour & minute, that'd be appreciated too. I'll get the party hats. You & the rest of the treasonous commies will be wanting to celebrate the foreign conquest of America, right? & a fun time was had by all.

Unlike Harold Camping, Hippi, I have no idea when trouble comes. But I am smart enough to know the amount of credit card spending were doing is not going to end well.

So tell me, in 2008 where were all the dying seniors? All the children that were put on the street to suffer? What hardships did you have to endure in 2008? And what did we gain by the 36% increase in the size of government since then?

Well the economy got a lot better.. oh, wait that didn't happen did it? Poverty ended.. ouch sorry no.. Seniors are now taken care of forever! Well.. sorry wrong again. What did we get for that extra trillion dollars a year?

To think that rolling the size of government back to 2008 levels is "draconian" and "slash and burn" is ridiculous. Just progressive spouting off party talking points. We did just fine in 2008, seniors got medicare and SS, all of the welfare checks cleared the bank.

3 year reduction similar to the 3 year expansion puts us back to a balanced budget. Why does that scare you so much? Feel like your loosing power?

[hippifried]

What are you on about now, Faldur? Are you trying to convince yourself that the budget had been cut prior to 2008? Which rock were you hiding under? Oh yeah, I almost forgot what the current lie is. That would be that the size & scope of government has grown in the last 2 years. You can keep lying to yourself if you like, but don't expect anybody else to take you seriously.