Something to consider.

[Silcc69]

Politics at play in both cases, plain and simple. For many people it is impossible to separate a person's political beliefs from our overall view of them, but not all. For example, despite disagreeing with her politically, I think it'd be great fun to hang out with Rachel Maddow, where perhaps ironically to some, I wouldn't want to hang out with Ann Coulter, Rush, Glenn Beck or that imbecile Sean Hannity for a microsecond. Faldur and Knees might feel differently though... especially about Ann.

Well my thing from what I observed was that the Republicans got involved with Sorros while player's and a few others got at Rush. Who I heard was a great commentator until he started acting like a racist ahole on the air. As for as hanging out meh IDK but I had the biggest crush on Soledad O'Brien since 97 I never got to watch her show but it was before MSNBC became a news channel.

[TJ347]

On the one hand you have politicians playing politics, and on the other private citizens. It still comes down to people playing politics. Soros and Rush were looking to make an investment, but distaste for them from people of a different political opinion scuttled their hopes. That their political positions came into play here is pitiful, but I'm sure not surprising to most of us.

As for Soledad O'Brien... YES!

[TJ347]

Sorry... That was significantly bigger than I expected. Here we go...

[Silcc69]

Yes she is hot and fuckin Angela Mcglowan OMG!!!!!!!!!

[onmyknees]

Yoda it just amazes me that you can see the world with such a distorted bias. You see the left as this holy, righteous, well meaning group of civil people holding hands singing kumbaya.

Every component you laid out in the conservative party is true. I will argue with you as to what degree. But EQUALLY, the same can be said of the progressive party.

I do not have the pompous position that my party's perfect and yours is screwed up. Both sides are EQUALLY fucked up. I will argue that my positions are better for our country in the long run. And I can only assume you would that your ideals are the ones we should follow. Lets get rid of this "your so screwed up" crap and "were so perfect" and debate the issues.

some months ago I enjoyed Yoda's posts. We'll never agree on the worldwide Muslim problem, but he is entitled to his fantasies...but lately he sees the world and everyone in it as good versus evil. There are no shades of gray.. Nautrally he sees himself aligned with the good, or in his interpretation...liberal. The argumentis only marginally more sophisticated than the sleazy pols who he sees as good, like Chuck Schumer ( because he cares and wants more social welfare) who labels his loyal opposition as extreme because he was told to do so. Because of people like him, and Silcc we have now reached a point in this country that racist simply has no meaning anymore. It's a throw away line. It actually makes me chuckle...not the charge but the hustlers, political hacks and fools uttering it with such frequency. Dissent and criticism of a half black president no matter how fact based is seen as racist. Good versus evil. It astounds me that people like him can't see it for the heinous political tactic it is. Racial hustlers, demagogues, and pied pipers who have created a culture of locked in dependency have taken over his (good) party yet he laments about the Christian right (evil). I never thought of him as a party man, but that's what he's become. He fails to see that after 50 years of social welfare programs largely promoted and defended by liberals ( the good guys) that black America largely remains far behind other racial groups in everything from education to health to life expectancy, to the family unit.... It's like he sees benevolence (good) as a welfare check or a food stamp booklet and (evil) as anyone who sees the generational folly in that. Try to speak frankly about the reality that exists in every major city in this country and you'll feel the wrath. And what does he seek........apparently more of the same. I'm good because I care...you're evil because you don't. Complex social and racial problems reduced to this. Watch in the coming days as the birth certificate controversy wanes and the discussion turns to budgetary issues how this good versus evil narrative takes shape. Watch and listen and you'll see the same good versus evil arguments used by liberals here on a national scale, and Obama's the best there is at it...but he needn't worry about convincing poor black Americans that Republicans and conservatives are evil...he's already got their support in his pocket by 96% , so they'll vote for him and other liberals in mass, and remain beholden to a huge central government for their very sustenance. Good versus Evil. If only it was that simplistic. If only we all saw the world as Yoda and Silcc

[Silcc69]

some months ago I enjoyed Yoda's posts. We'll never agree on the worldwide Muslim problem, but he is entitled to his fantasies...but lately he sees the world and everyone in it as good versus evil. There are no shades of gray.. Nautrally he sees himself aligned with the good, or in his interpretation...liberal. The argumentis only marginally more sophisticated than the sleazy pols who he sees as good, like Chuck Schumer ( because he cares and wants more social welfare) who labels his loyal opposition as extreme because he was told to do so. Because of people like him, and Silcc we have now reached a point in this country that racist simply has no meaning anymore. It's a throw away line. It actually makes me chuckle...not the charge but the hustlers, political hacks and fools uttering it with such frequency. Dissent and criticism of a half black president no matter how fact based is seen as racist. Good versus evil. It astounds me that people like him can't see it for the heinous political tactic it is. Racial hustlers, demagogues, and pied pipers who have created a culture of locked in dependency have taken over his (good) party yet he laments about the Christian right (evil). I never thought of him as a party man, but that's what he's become. He fails to see that after 50 years of social welfare programs largely promoted and defended by liberals ( the good guys) that black America largely remains far behind other racial groups in everything from education to health to life expectancy, to the family unit.... It's like he sees benevolence (good) as a welfare check or a food stamp booklet and (evil) as anyone who sees the generational folly in that. Try to speak frankly about the reality that exists in every major city in this country and you'll feel the wrath. And what does he seek........apparently more of the same. I'm good because I care...you're evil because you don't. Complex social and racial problems reduced to this. Watch in the coming days as the birth certificate controversy wanes and the discussion turns to budgetary issues how this good versus evil narrative takes shape. Watch and listen and you'll see the same good versus evil arguments used by liberals here on a national scale, and Obama's the best there is at it...but he needn't worry about convincing poor black Americans that Republicans and conservatives are evil...he's already got their support in his pocket by 96% , so they'll vote for him and other liberals in mass, and remain beholden to a huge central government for their very sustenance. Good versus Evil. If only it was that simplistic. If only we all saw the world as Yoda and Silcc

[yodajazz]

Since I know that someone had to have made you aware of the fact that the rich already comprise a substantial part of this country's tax base some time ago, to say nothing of the fact that the tax burden on the middle class is due to the number of people in this country that pay no taxes at all, I won't restate that argument. I'll simply point out that you have just restated the very thing that you begin by saying you did not say.

You continue to present the same argument despite the fact that you have Republican members of this forum who don't fit into your definition of who they are or what they care about, and thus close any avenue for discussion that is of any merit whatsoever. If it's Republicans who care more about money than our fellow man, how do you explain Charlie Rangel and the millions he's "earned" despite having no legitimate means to explain such income? And that's just one example of a Democrat who is supposed to care about the poor demonstrating that his primary concern is making himself rich. By ignoring facts such as these that would discredit the entire premise you operate under, you insult the intelligence of every Republican or conservative who might otherwise have participated in this discussion, and with that said I will now move on, as we have reached an impasse.

I would have to be stupid to think that all Republicans feel and act one way, and Democrats another. You should understand we talk about general tendencies, not every person, who identifies with a party. Criticizing a Republican action, does not mean all Democrats are good. You consistently try to say that I am saying all Democrats are good, and conversely all Republicans are evil, when I, never said such things. I in fact agreed that the Democrats were the lesser of two evils. How does that translate into me saying that Democrats are all good? It seems to me that it’s your way of avoiding difficult questions.

I criticized financial policies of the Bush administration, and you avoid responding, by pointing to a Democrat, who appears to have dishonest dealings. This has nothing to do with the specific decision to cut taxes, while waging war. Nor does it have anything to do the general philosophy of not asking people to sacrifice, to solve problems, as was done in the past. Repealing the Financial Reform Act was a stated goal of some Republican Congressmen, I believe. I think that was a bad idea, given the seriousness of the world financial crisis, that was caused by the US financial system. This is about public policy, not about people here, who I know I share common interests with.

I do agree that there is not much productivity in discussing things here. I do see some general trends that I think are disturbing, and are hurting this nation, and I will continue to speak on my concerns.

[yodajazz]

some months ago I enjoyed Yoda's posts. We'll never agree on the worldwide Muslim problem, but he is entitled to his fantasies...but lately he sees the world and everyone in it as good versus evil. There are no shades of gray.. Nautrally he sees himself aligned with the good, or in his interpretation...liberal. The argumentis only marginally more sophisticated than the sleazy pols who he sees as good, like Chuck Schumer ( because he cares and wants more social welfare) who labels his loyal opposition as extreme because he was told to do so. Because of people like him, and Silcc we have now reached a point in this country that racist simply has no meaning anymore. It's a throw away line. It actually makes me chuckle...not the charge but the hustlers, political hacks and fools uttering it with such frequency. Dissent and criticism of a half black president no matter how fact based is seen as racist. Good versus evil. It astounds me that people like him can't see it for the heinous political tactic it is. Racial hustlers, demagogues, and pied pipers who have created a culture of locked in dependency have taken over his (good) party yet he laments about the Christian right (evil). I never thought of him as a party man, but that's what he's become. He fails to see that after 50 years of social welfare programs largely promoted and defended by liberals ( the good guys) that black America largely remains far behind other racial groups in everything from education to health to life expectancy, to the family unit.... It's like he sees benevolence (good) as a welfare check or a food stamp booklet and (evil) as anyone who sees the generational folly in that. Try to speak frankly about the reality that exists in every major city in this country and you'll feel the wrath. And what does he seek........apparently more of the same. I'm good because I care...you're evil because you don't. Complex social and racial problems reduced to this. Watch in the coming days as the birth certificate controversy wanes and the discussion turns to budgetary issues how this good versus evil narrative takes shape. Watch and listen and you'll see the same good versus evil arguments used by liberals here on a national scale, and Obama's the best there is at it...but he needn't worry about convincing poor black Americans that Republicans and conservatives are evil...he's already got their support in his pocket by 96% , so they'll vote for him and other liberals in mass, and remain beholden to a huge central government for their very sustenance. Good versus Evil. If only it was that simplistic. If only we all saw the world as Yoda and Silcc

I wont comment on your dissertation of my belief system, however thanks for caring. I just want to comment that if you want to be consistent about people being “beholding to a huge national government” you are including Goldman, Sachs who had their investment firm declared a bank, so monies of theirs would, be insured by the government; the financial industry in general, those that get to borrow money for 0.5% or whatever, the defense industry, Israel, energy companies, any group that pays lobbyists, to help influence government decision making, farmers, whose food is subject to government oversight, the transportation industry, state and local governments, and so forth. Also don’t forget our military.

Just so you don’t just think of people on food stamps, and forget about the rest of the people, whose livelihood is directly affected by the government.

But, I will comment too, by saying when I spoke of evil, I was specifically referring to the concept of Greed. It has been considered part of "the seven deadly sins" since early Christianity. I dont nescessarily place much importance on the concept of 'sin'. But I do see it in reality, as a code name for human failings which can take down, the mightiest.