Muslims

[Stavros]

tsNajwa: there are signs in most airports, and most ports that direct nationals or EU citizens to one gate, and other passport holders to another.

The demographics of Lebanon indicate that the Shi'a are either already a numerical majority or will be in the next 10-20 years, its hard to say because the govt hasn't conducted a census there for political reasons since 1932; the Shi'a constitute 60% of the population of Iraq which with my simple arithmetic makes them the majority there; and for you to suggest they are not Muslims tells us more about you than it does about the reality of life for people who have been slaughtered in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and so on, for no other reason than a bigoted and sectarian perspective that discredits the people who believe it. If the Shi'a appear 'liberal' it is because they have been associated with 'oppression' and its 'liberation' -in fact the Shi'a in Lebanon and Iraq are more conservative in social values than the Sunna, but there will always be local variations.

My own connections to the Middle East are real so I don't need to rely merely on 'reading' for my views; but anyone who reads and thinks and has something to say is welcome to engage in this discussion.

[hippifried]

Najwa,
I understand the difference between Arabs & everybody north or east of Iraq. It's irrelevant to my statement. Or a discussion of Islam in general for that matter. Regardless of what language they speak to Grandma, if they're Muslim, they're still reading the Quran & trying to follow the teachings of the Prophet. Right? Regardless of the denomination, they're still reading the Quran & trying to follow the teachings of the Prophet. Right?

baghdad and iraq has been known for hundreds of years to be liberal and cultural city..

Oh, a lot longer than that. Try thousands. It was the crossroad & center of trade between east & west. It's the birthplace of civilization as we know it. Abraham was born & raised there, making it the birthplace of all 3 great monotheist religions. That area's always been cosmopolitan. But that's not my point.

and yes denominations are denominations for a reason.

Yeah. It's political &/or philosophical schisms in the power structure of the organization. This is the same worldwide since prehistory. Some sects are more fanatical than others, but every denomination of every religion, or any philosophy actually, has it's share of fanatics. It's the same with political wings & parties, or theoretical social & economic philosophies. We were on the brink of human extermination because of an argument over who should control the money. Competitors all lie about their competition. In monotheistic religious schisms, the lie is usually that "those others" are idolators or blasphemers. (That doesn't work with pagans because they don't have a problem with idolatry.) But so what? This still doesn't address my point, but it's getting closer.

All I'm saying is that whenever westerners point to particular conservative or reactionary Muslim intolerance, they're pointing at Sunni or Sunni offshoots. The prime examples of such intolerance are the Taliban in Afghanistan & parts of Pakistan, & Saudi Arabia. Where do the Shia fit into the stereotype? They don't. The problems non-Muslims have with places that are predominantly Shia, like Iran or Iraq, is strictly about power & control of the oil trade.

my point i am making is i know many sunnis who drink alcohol, eat bacon and go to clubs like it is end of the world... but will pray five times a day and be at masjid always.. and i know shia's who are very conservative. so do not generalise like you say..

Oh I know them too. Don't we all? There's also reform Jews, jack Mormons, Easter Catholics, & I don't know what they call "devout" Protestants who don't practice any of the teachings of Jesus or who are out & out criminals. We all have more in common than we do differences. Our differences are what make us interesting. Everybody knows & understands the universal code of human interaction, AKA the principle of reciprocity or the Golden Rule. It's the basis of all morality & ethics, regardless of how many words are used to describe it. The constant worries about anybody who's different are interesting & even funny at times, but it's all paranoia. We're just talking degrees of worry intensity. The higher the degree, the more likely we are to shunt the universal moral code aside. Common sense usually wins out in the end. Sometimes it just takes a millennium or 2, or 3 or...