politics in Egypt

[NYBURBS]

It was one of few achievements during his presidency. I really don't think we can't rely on an Egyptian government that includes the Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood is now saying that the peace treaty needs to be rewritten when a provisional government is formed (Brotherhood included in the provisional government). That will open a big can of worms. The only reason I am paying attention to them is that they are the largest organized political group in Egypt at the moment. The Muslim Brotherhood needs to be marginalized or there will be another Iran-type government.

It's not our place to marginalize political parties in other countries, and it's that sort of policy attitude that contributes to the rabid dislike many around the world have for the US. The Egyptians have always been more nationalistic than Islamic in their political discourse, and we'd do well to let them sort out their own internal political situation.

[Stavros]

Mubarak's relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood is not so straightforward as people think, their radicalism was to a degree diluted because the Egyptan government took a lenient view of more radical judges imposing the kinds of sentences on secular Egyptians which would have been unthinkable when Nasser was around -indeed it was Nasser who took the most violent attitude to the Brotherhood (hanging Syed Qutb for example); Mubarak thought he could give them enough rope to hang themselves, instead he made some attitudes acceptable, and this has made life harder for Copts and Secular Arabs in Egypt. People fear the Brotherhood but these days they are not so different from the British Labour Party in the 1980s or even 90s, the bottom line is there to see for all: jobs, freedom from oppression, and more social and economic justice. The Brotherhood will score in the rural areas I think, not as well in the cities, let's welcome this change and hope it doesnt descend into violence and chaos.

[Prospero]

Surely the Brotherhood have been behind recent attacks on Copts? Not an encouraging sign.

[Stavros]

Surely the Brotherhood have been behind recent attacks on Copts? Not an encouraging sign.

Difficult to say as officially its a banned organization and there are other groups some of whom use violence to intimidate or kill Copts and also other Muslims; it comes down to whether or not these smaller -possibly better oranised- groups will try and derail the 'transition' to democracy or whether they will have to live on its margins albeit trying to cause havoc -I guess this is the kind of instability that people are afraid of -but right now the alternative is state oppression, and that could also play into the hands of more radical Muslims...maybe this volatility with no apparent leadership is also what makes the Egyptian situation so interesting to outsiders. I'm still in an optimistic frame of mind, maybe because its the weekend (!).

[Ben]

Mubarak family fortune could reach $70bn, say experts

President Hosni Mubarak's family fortune could be as much as $70bn (£43.5bn) according to analysis by Middle East experts, with much of his wealth in British and Swiss banks or tied up in real estate in London, New York, Los Angeles and along expensive tracts of the Red Sea coast.

• After 30 years as president and many more as a senior military official, Mubarak has had access to investment deals that have generated hundreds of millions of pounds in profits. Most of those gains have been taken offshore and deposited in secret bank accounts or invested in upmarket homes and hotels.
  According to a report last year in the Arabic newspaper Al Khabar, Mubarak has properties in Manhattan and exclusive Beverly Hills addresses on Rodeo Drive.
  His sons, Gamal and Alaa, are also billionaires. A protest outside Gamal's ostentatious home at 28 Wilton Place in Belgravia, central London, highlighted the family's appetite for western trophy assets.
  Amaney Jamal, a political science professor at Princeton University, said the estimate of $40bn-70bn was comparable with the vast wealth of leaders in other Gulf countries.
  "The business ventures from his military and government service accumulated to his personal wealth," she told ABC news. "There was a lot of corruption in this regime and stifling of public resources for personal gain.
  "This is the pattern of other Middle Eastern dictators so their wealth will not be taken during a transition. These leaders plan on this."
  Al Khabar said it understood the Mubaraks kept much of their wealth offshore in the Swiss bank UBS and the Bank of Scotland, part of Lloyds Banking Group, although this information could be at least 10 years old.
  There are only sketchy details of exactly where the Mubaraks have generated their wealth and its final destination.
  Christopher Davidson, professor of Middle East politics at Durham University, said Mubarak, his wife, Suzanne, and two sons were able to accumulate wealth through a number of business partnerships with foreign investors and companies, dating back to when he was in the military and in a position to benefit from corporate corruption.
  He said most Gulf states required foreigners give a local business partner a 51% stake in start-up ventures. In Egypt, the figure is commonly nearer 20%, but still gives politicians and close allies in the military a source of huge profits with no initial outlay and little risk.
  "Almost every project needs a sponsor and Mubarak was well-placed to take advantage of any deals on offer," he said.
  "Much of his money is in Swiss bank accounts and London property. These are the favourites of Middle Eastern leaders and there is no reason to think Mubarak is any different. Gamal's Wilton Place home is likely to be the tip of the iceberg."
  Al Khabar named a series of major western companies that, partnered with the Mubarak family, generated an estimated $15m a year in profits.
  Aladdin Elaasar, author of The Last Pharaoh: Mubarak and the Uncertain Future of Egypt in the Obama Age, said the Mubaraks own several residences in Egypt, some inherited from previous presidents and the monarchy, and others the president has commissioned.
  Hotels and land around the Sharm el-Sheikh tourist resort are also a source of Mubarak family wealth.

[Ben]

Libya:



Algeria:

[onmyknees]

It's not our place to marginalize political parties in other countries, and it's that sort of policy attitude that contributes to the rabid dislike many around the world have for the US. The Egyptians have always been more nationalistic than Islamic in their political discourse, and we'd do well to let them sort out their own internal political situation.

True that ..........to a point. But certainly we could/should be working through back channels. I'm not suggesting we impose our will, but the thought or a more Islamic fundemental friendly government in Egypt would be ominous. Need proof? Look at what havoc Iran has reeked on us and the rest of the world in the past 25 years, with no end in sight.

Will this end peacefully and result in some sort of demacracy in Egypt? I'm not hopeful after all, this is the middle east and things never end well there.

[russtafa]

These riots seem to be spreading in the middle east

[hippifried]

I don't think any of this has anything to do with religion whatsoever. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with political positioning or posturing on the world stage either. It seems to be exactly as it appears. People, en masse, sick & tired of being stuck a century behind the rest of the world.

[Ben]