Failure of this Forum

[thombergeron]

You haven't demonstrated that there is a problem to be ignored. You have demonstrated that you have come across some number of people who are bigoted against transsexuals and are also gay. This is a problem for these individuals, but not for "gay people."

This is actually an extraordinarily important distinction, and not merely "semantics of quantity." To be clear, you are holding several hundred million individuals collectively responsible for the actions of a few. That's not rational, and it's not honest.

No one is talking lollipops and roses. I conspicuously never said that all gay men are entirely innocent of bigotry themselves. That would indeed be a fallacy. But you've claimed, variously, that "many," "most," or "a lot of" gay people are bigoted against transsexuals. I've responded that there is simply no way for you to know that, and that the only way for you to hold that opinion is on the basis of generalizations, stereotypes, and preconceived notions.

Finally, one certainly can prove a negative: modus tollendo tollens.

[thombergeron]

Which is to say, why do any of you fucking people give a crap, or have anything at all to say, about who anybody else wants to fuck? Clean your own damn houses and keep a civil fucking tongue in your heads.

[tsparisangelline]

The majority of gay men I have met do not understand transsexuals and think we are just gay boys who are mentally confused and want men.

[amberskyi]

i guess that is where we differ and is probably the basis of our disagreement...to me, anyone that isnt full blown transsexual is cd/tv. which is also why I say its not gay to fuck them.

please do pray tell what a full blow transsexual is?
its very interesting that we keep trying to tell you guys the difference between a ts and a cd is mentality.a ts from a very young age knows she was supposed to be a woman.its a conviction,a knowledge or feeling we have since we were very young.
A CROSSDRESSER HOWEVER HAS NO REAL DESIRE TO BE A WOMAN.putting on a dress and looking pretty doesnt make the person a woman.it just means the man has feminine physical features.
it has nothing to do with looks.yes alot of time when a ts is just starting out they may dress up part time or not look too great but she is still a woman in her mind.a crossdresser when dressed up knows that they are a man playing a part (and they are happy with that).
im not sure where this wall of ignorance is coming from.no matter how many time we explain or how intelligently we word it ya'll just refuse to accept what the facts are.at least be honest and just say you dont care if its a woman or not as long as it looks pretty.any man whos truely into woman almost exclusively would understand the difference.
paris was a full blown woman her whole life!!!!! regardless of how she looked.

[tsparisangelline]

please do pray tell what a full blow transsexual is?
its very interesting that we keep trying to tell you guys the difference between a ts and a cd is mentality.a ts from a very young age knows she was supposed to be a woman.its a conviction,a knowledge or feeling we have since we were very young.
A CROSSDRESSER HOWEVER HAS NO REAL DESIRE TO BE A WOMAN.putting on a dress and looking pretty doesnt make the person a woman.it just means the man has feminine physical features.
it has nothing to do with looks.yes alot of time when a ts is just starting out the may dress up part time or not look to great but she is still a woman in her mind.a crossdresser when dressed up knows that they are a man playing a part (and they are happy with that).
im not sure where is wall of ignorance is coming from.no matter how many time we explain or how intelligently we word it ya'll just refuse to accept what the facts are.at least be honest and just say i dont care if its a woman or not as long as it looks pretty.any man whos truely were into woman almost exclusively you would understand the difference.
paris was a full blown woman her whole life!!!!! regardless of how she looked.

I hate to say it but we have stated fact after fact and these people just let it go in one ear and out the other, it makes me ashamed to be found attractive by these men.

This is depressing

[BellaBellucci]

You haven't demonstrated that there is a problem to be ignored. You have demonstrated that you have come across some number of people who are bigoted against transsexuals and are also gay. This is a problem for these individuals, but not for "gay people."

The way a person represents their community is an issue that concerns everyone within that community.

This is actually an extraordinarily important distinction, and not merely "semantics of quantity." To be clear, you are holding several hundred million individuals collectively responsible for the actions of a few. That's not rational, and it's not honest.

I'm making the best possible analysis with the limited information that I have. When I'm able to meet every gay person in the world, then you'll have a point. Until then, it's a straw man argument just as I said. What you're saying is that 'you can't prove that all gay people feel that way, and I've never seen it, so none do, and you're a bigot.'

No one is talking lollipops and roses. I conspicuously never said that all gay men are entirely innocent of bigotry themselves. That would indeed be a fallacy. But you've claimed, variously, that "many," "most," or "a lot of" gay people are bigoted against transsexuals. I've responded that there is simply no way for you to know that, and that the only way for you to hold that opinion is on the basis of generalizations, stereotypes, and preconceived notions.

No, you didn't say that, but you used the implication of it to distract attention away from the problem: people within the gay community, their number subject to speculation but in my opinion many-to-most, who are xenophobic.

And it's not on the basis of stereotypes, it's based on personal experiences. Stereotypes are based in the third person. And again, it doesn't change the way I approach a gay person one iota. It's simply an objective hypothesis based on my point of view. I guess the problem with my objectivity in the matter is that it is based on subjective evidence, and I'll admit that, but it's all anyone really has in matter such as these.

Finally, one certainly can prove a negative: modus tollendo tollens.

My bad. Good call!

But in this case, it would be impossible for you to prove that you've never experienced gay xenophobia.

~BB~

[amberskyi]

I hate to say it but we have stated fact after fact and these people just let it go in one ear and out the other, it makes me ashamed to be found attractive by these men.

This is depressing

and than they have the nerve to ask why some ts woman arent into dating ts admirers...why whould i date someone who doesnt understand truely understand why im a woman or how im a woman.they claim to see us as woman but i think this thread has really proved otherwise

[tsparisangelline]

and than they have the nerve to ask why some ts woman arent into dating ts admirers...why whould i date someone who doesnt understand truely understand why im a woman or how im a woman.they claim to see as woman but i think this thread has really proved otherwise

I have said that since day one, did you read where the guy said we are not woman to him? Or the one who said all trannys look like trannys?

lol

[innocentbychoice]

Gay people don't like transsexuals.

Gay people also don't understand guys who like transsexuals. It is what it is.

I am gay and I like transsexuals (not in a sexual way, except trans men).

I am gay and I understand guys who like transgirls.

Am I wrong? Am I less gay now?

You are doing exactly what we are talking about, generalizing.

[fred41]

I am gay and I like transsexuals (not in a sexual way, except trans men).

I am gay and I understand guys who like transgirls.

Am I wrong? Am I less gay now?

You are doing exactly what we are talking about, generalizing.

I honestly think that people always remember negative experiences (or responses...such as sometimes written on this site) more than positive ones. The negative stuff leaves a deeper impression...so with that comes the generalizing.