No stay of execution for Crips Founder Tookie Williams.

[JackHammer]

I read the first couple of pages from this thread, then skipped to the last one, so if I'm repeating anything anyone esle said, I apologize).

We may all be united in our love of all things t-girl, but when it comes to the "hot button' subjects we really are just like the rest of society.

Anyone know why hot button topoics (abortion, death-penalty, stem-cell research etc) never get solved...because if they did we'd have no need for politicians (let's face it, they're the ones that create and promote them). Actually the politicians are all practicing for life after politics...they're honing their skills at being sports comissioners! See how quick they got something done about the steroids issue.

As for me and the death penalty...well Legend, I hear what you're saying...but the eye for an eye approach has never solved anything as far as my readings have shown me, so I'm against it.

I'm not even going to touch the whole prison system issue (ok, just one phrase...profit through privatization, it does benefit a number of entities, financially, to have prisons built and have them populated to the hilt).

There's always two sides to every argument, and this one definitely has two distinct sides, will probably never be fully solved.

Oh...and the commandment Thou shalt not kill, goes for all killing (I bet legend is Pro-Life when it comes to fetuses, right...but then again, I suppose they never killed anyone (I know the comeback by heart.

[brickcitybrother]

To fan the flames ...


I say 'ghost his ass.'

Stanley Tookie Williams is pulling a game on the majority of the public. He's really a bitch that trying to save his own ass by deliberate deceptiveness especially by pretending to have one set of feelings (anti-gang message) and acting under the influence of another (refusing to cooperate with authorities about other gang activity).

If he is truly anti-gang, then he should have no problem in cooperating with the police about other murders that he is not implicated in. Yet, he refuses. I guess you know where his true allegience lies.

He wants to use sleight of hand to draw your attention to his activities regarding slowing gang killings... because failure to do so would allow you to see that it was his own actions that unleased this horrible plague (gang violence). He is 'responsible' only for the four murders his convicted of, or more considering the wave of death that the Crips and its rival Bloods (created first to 'protect' non-members from violence/robbery by the Crips) have visited upon neighborhoods across the country and beyond.

And yes, even his attempts to slow the violence is a palor trick. His 'Crips' are involved in more than just shootings - the drug trade, the robberies, etc. I cannot understand any woman that would support him, given the absolute objectifying that he continues to support within the gang culture that leads to the rapes of hundreds of young females (not to mention the ugly assaults that these gangs are known to commit against homosexual and transgender people).

And why call Mr. Williams a bitch? Because, if he is unwilling to 'turn' on his gang associates because of his 'pleadge' to them, then why should he not 'give his life to the gang' as he demanded so many of its members when he headed it. What better way to earn their respect then to demostrate that even after 20 years, the 'system' could not break you. But he passed on the opportunity to play but ends against the middle. He 'advocates' against the gangs while he still has visits with and makes calls to men who have known gang affiliation.

For all his work, he done little to defeat the gang plague. We should not look at his post-incaceration actions as accomplishments, rather we should note that he has not stopped what he started. He simply has not corrected a problem he created. That is failure.

I heard family members of the victims speak about him. I was most impressed by the brother of a victim who made it clear that he was against the death penalty. He stated that he offered to Mr. Williams to be the only family member of a victim to ask for clemency, on a single condition - that Mr. Williams agrees to serve LIFE in prision WITHOUT SEEKING PAROLE. He was turned down. That does not sound like a man fighting for his life - that sounds like a calculating individual seeking to have his cake and it too. Oh, that brother of the victim. His position is that Mr. Williams should then be put to death because the chance of him gaining freedom and the danger that would mean is too great a risk.

Oh for the race card players or those who question the 'system.' Are there horrible evil european/asian/hispanic/indian people that should be punished according to their crimes? I hear a resounding - YES! Then guess what - there are some bad black people too. Maybe murder, drug dealing, rape and robbery doesn't piss you off. For me it does. And while Mr. Williams was not convicted of all of them - he does admit to the drug dealing, rape and robbery in his own book. So perhas the angel wings he wishes to wear aren't so white.

As far as the system goes - yup its not where it should be. Yup, it is often manipulated to punish the poor (black and white). Yup those in charge are too often racist in either deed or thought. That is why the last hope is truly NOT with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. A denial of clemency by him does not close all avenues of appeal. Mr. Williams can still go to federal court and successfully press his case. He need only prove that he's innocent. So why is the media circus (feuled by his supporters and detractors alike) so focused on Gov. Schwarzenegger. Its simple very simple ... and I will quote Mr. Williams lead attorneyt explaining the situation:

"I'm not going to this hearing with hope. I'm going to this hearing frightened to death," defense attorney Peter Fleming Jr. said. "If we fail as counsel, a man dies."

Why is that?

Because as Mr. Fleming acknowledged, a successful Federal appeal requires proving Mr. Williams innocent. And to quote Mr. Fleming once again;

"[W]e're not in a position to do that."


No fat in this rant - just facts!

[Kramer]

My prediction is: Big Arnie is gonna cave in to pressure and let him live! You heard it here first!

[Legend]

My prediction is: Big Arnie is gonna cave in to pressure and let him live! You heard it here first!

He is losing big time in the polls down there you never know, but really i dont think he will cave in.

[The Magic One]

Fuck Tookie. Man up and face your consequences. You kill you die. Thats the law of the land.

[NYCe]

This thread is amazing. Anyone who thinks this is just a porn board needs to read this and have a big cup of "shut the fuck up"

[tubgirl]

so, did this dude die yet?

[yourdaddy]

If they take him off death row, and put him in the general prison population, he'll probably get stabbed to death by a "Blood" member. To me, that's even better justice.

[chefmike]

If they take him off death row, and put him in the general prison population, he'll probably get stabbed to death by a "Blood" member. To me, that's even better justice.

Yeah, justice, I can dig it. It would be kinda like sending neocons and their apologists to Iraq.

[medic]

Speaking from a position witch has afforded me different views of society, both on the side of rendering aid to devistated familys, caring for the people accused of the outrageous actions, being a medical part of a special ops team that arrests them, hearing them say (fuck you I'll be out before you get home, or Dont go to sleep I have homies (sp)) really puts a negstive spin on you at times. BUT, when it comes to the question, can someone be rehabilitated the answer is a resounding SOMETIMES.

Several factors come into play when the question of rehab comes up. they are many and complex. There are very manipulative people on both sides of the equation. But In my experience the people who have contemplated and carried out these vicious crimes are the most likely not to be able to be rehabed.

Now lets look at Tookie. He started one of the most distructive gangs in history. Now how did he do this, well he brought in kids/adults on the pretense of being a big family. He managed to manipulate his followers to do his bidding for the good of the family. He may have had many of his followers kill other "gang" members for street corners or drug deals, extortion or name your favorite crime against others. Kinda sorta like the manipulative ways of Hitler (find a common point for everyone to belive in then exploit it). (flame on)

I do think that he has the ability to manipulate most every situation he is in, I think he should pay for his actions and that there is a place for the death penalty.

I also think that if it is a murder case that is beyond the doubt that the person committed the crime, (on video, Air tight dna etc) then justice should be swift (1 year or less). It should also be public, I do think that public punishment would be more of a deterance than the current sanitary way that it is carried out. Call me barbaric but there used to be invatations to hangings way back when. people would come from everywhere to watch justice being served. If you look at the number of poeple in prision during the 1800s the years serverd the number of capital crimes committed and people put to death you would find those numbers were a lot lower even when you adjust for the lower number of people incountry.

So yes I do believe that he should pay for his crime, The stars who are standing up for him point to the things he has done for the kids but skip over what he has orcastrated and even carried out himself. but it gets them in the spotlight.


MEDIC OR DITCH DOC What ever