Are we transpeople just eccentric, not giving a flying fuck about approval?

[BrendaQG]

I have been in a reflective mood today holidays do that to me. It occurs to me that transpeople are just highly intelligent, androgynous , and eccentric...all consistent with having higher than average IQ.

Thinking about the whole state of being trans has me thinking are we all just eccentric in a way? Psychological studies show that the average IQ of a transsexual is 116.... higher than 84.1 % of the population.

That got me to thinking. Perhaps our condition has allot to do with being too smart to be constrained by gender norms. Society says boys should like X girls should like Y but never really explains why. Truly smart people... smarter than 84% of people...would want to know that.

As a matter of fact according to this book "High IQ Kids" children who are gifted are often androgynous and disregard gender norms. I have seen studies which measured the finger ratios of various scientist and found that they are androgynous.

So what do you guys and girls think (especially the girls). If non trans high IQ people are noticeably androgynous, and most transpeople are of higher IQ, then are we just unconsciously eccentric. While we do not "choose" or act out anything we are simply being ourselves in a way that is utterly consistent with a high IQ. (Or put away as has been said about eccentric people in general we choose not to conform for the sake of conformity.) This is simply a variation on the theme of high IQ people being androgynous.

[phobun]

Thinking about the whole state of being trans has me thinking are we all just eccentric in a way? Psychological studies show that the average IQ of a transsexual is 116.... higher than 84.1 % of the population.

Get real. Those studies are skewed because they were conducted on MTFs who transitioned late in life after successful careers, etc. Of course a higher IQ will be reflected. Go do IQ tests on a sample of mostly "working" girls and I think certain TS community members will no longer be able to use IQ test results an an opportunity to congratulate themselves for being above average.

[BrendaQG]

No I actually based that number on a study which looked at transwomen from across the age spectrum to get that number. "Transsexual subtypes Clinical and theoretical significance". By Yolonda Smith et al published in the journal of Psychiatry Research. http://akikos-planet.cocolog-nifty.c...gnificance.pdf

It looked at male to female, female to male, different sexual orientations and ages. The IQ of the younger group so called in that study "homosexual" group was 111.2 +/- 16.9. That means that the majority of those people had an IQ of over 100 (higher than half the population) A sizable minority of this younger group would be considered gifted.

As for working girls. I was an active working girl for a spell. Then I got into a decent graduate school now I'm a Cosmologist...no fooling. People from Chicago know me and know that. I am an extreme example. Moreover I was not that old when I decided to really declare myself a transsexual at 26, and I had always been quite feminine acting no matter what.

I have never met a working girl who was clean and sober who was actually stupid. Truly stupid or slow people would never survive a year or even a month as a working girl.

[phobun]

No I actually based that number on a study which looked at transwomen from across the age spectrum to get that number. "Transsexual subtypes Clinical and theoretical significance". By Yolonda Smith et al published in the journal of Psychiatry Research. http://akikos-planet.cocolog-nifty.c...gnificance.pdf

It looked at male to female, female to male, different sexual orientations and ages. The IQ of the younger group so called in that study "homosexual" group was 111.2 +/- 16.9. That means that the majority of those people had an IQ of over 100 (higher than half the population) A sizable minority of this younger group would be considered gifted.

111.2 is less than 1 standard deviation above the mean. Mostly likely they are average.

As for working girls. I was an active working girl for a spell. Then I got into a decent graduate school now I'm a Cosmologist...no fooling. People from Chicago know me and know that. I am an extreme example.

I have never met a working girl who was clean and sober who was actually stupid. Truly stupid or slow people would never survive a year or even a month as a working girl.

An anecdote about yourself proves nothing.

Transwomen are as varied as any other group. There are smarties and there are dumbies. Most are average people living ordinary lives.

[JoePitt]

It's a little known fact that Steven Hawking refuses to have somebody lift him out of bed without his favorite black bra and crotchless panties on. I guess Brenda is right.

[speedstick112]

I think there's a legitimate connection between intelligence and gender variance. The reason is unclear, because it's not like a great deal of intellect is required to figure out one's gender identity. I was in the "gifted" class in high school, where everyone had to score at least 98th percentile to get in. There were 3 of us trans kids in a class of 30.

Also, the shrink that I used to see was nice enough to show us his statistics on this matter. They did IQ tests on all the kids they saw, and the ones that were there for gender issues had significantly higher scores (can't seen to find the sheet, so generalizing). Then again, CAMH takes down tons of info on their patients so they claim any relationship they want, say, transsexuality and personality disorders.

There's a bit about that here.

[fred41]

Okay, uhmmmm...yeah!, I......uhhhhhhhhhhhhh............................. ....



...........no!!




..maybe just more likely to have delusions of grandeur...lol

[runround04]

It's a little known fact that Steven Hawking refuses to have somebody lift him out of bed without his favorite black bra and crotchless panties on. I guess Brenda is right.

refuses? umm... Whats he gonna do about it? hahahahaha



To the Op topic, I would think TS's are as varied as any other group. Sayin that TS's are smarter than men/women is akin to sayin men are smarter than women. There are idiots and genius's in any group IMO

[BrendaQG]

I think there's a legitimate connection between intelligence and gender variance. The reason is unclear, because it's not like a great deal of intellect is required to figure out one's gender identity. I was in the "gifted" class in high school, where everyone had to score at least 98th percentile to get in. There were 3 of us trans kids in a class of 30.

While I agree it does not take a great deal of intelligence for someone to figure out that the gender norms presented by society aren't for them. However I think Intelligence, above average intelligence, has something to do with how one responds to that.

Some people respond by questioning the norms or disregarding them.
Other people respond by clinging tight to the norms.

Also, the shrink that I used to see was nice enough to show us his statistics on this matter. They did IQ tests on all the kids they saw, and the ones that were there for gender issues had significantly higher scores (can't seen to find the sheet, so generalizing). Then again, CAMH takes down tons of info on their patients so they claim any relationship they want, say, transsexuality and personality disorders.

Yeah if your a psychologist PhD you can just about make crap up. So why not me? Well I guess I would need to measure the IQ of something like 1000 transwomen and compare it to the IQ of the general population. I'm just not that kind of scientist.

[BellaBellucci]

IQ is not a constant. A test can really only prove how efficient a brain's process is at any given time. I've been tested more than once with scores ranging from 115 (when I had just run away and was emotionally overwhelmed) to 138 (when I had much less to worry about).

I also think that while smarter people are generally more likely to either reject or experiment with the concept of gender, that doesn't necessarily make transpeople smarter as a whole. Some people transition without even thinking about it. It's more of a 'feeling' and it's just as valid as someone analyzing it to death because many times, it's just something in the soul that makes a person trans.

~BB~